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P.M.E. and Potato Peelers.

Zoomup
About 2 years ago I was asked to undertake electrical work at a local chip shop/fast food outlet. I was concerned about large metal drummed wet potato peeling machines located on a wet floor in an old outbuilding and the P.M.E. earthing system. I could not devise a safe system in my mind where the large potato peeling machines positioned on a wet stone floor could be made safe with the P.M.E. earthing.


Anyway, unfortunately recently the place burned down and is now boarded up. The cause may not be electrical, but due to oil catching fire.


I have not done any work in the building at all.


Because the machines could not be effectively TT earthed I did not proceed with any work.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norfolk-norfolk-fire-at-mundesley-business-7985784


Z.
  • 0
    Zoomup:

    The chance of injury or death is just over one in a million. Knowing my luck that will be me.


    Over what period?


    The lifetime risk of death is 1. Exactly 1.


    If the average lifespan is 80 years, the average chance of dying in any given year is 1:80. Clearly, the risk goes up as you get older, but people who are already sick pull the average down, so if you are perfectly healthy, your chances are probably better than this.


    The risk of dying from a radiation-induced tumour caused by a CT scan of the head is equivalent to driving 12 miles. People are afraid of radiation, but not driving. However, if you live more than 6 miles from the hospital, the round trip is more likely to get you than the scan.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Chris Pearson:

    The lifetime risk of death is 1. Exactly 1.


    Whilst we have every reason to believe this is true, the empirical answer is 0.97. :-) That 3% of all the humans who have ever lived have not yet died tells us something interesting about population growth. 


  • 0
    Our local chip shop is TT with a single upfront 30 mA RCD, which from a safety point of view is great, a single fault shuts the entire place down, as has happened just at opening time with everything ready to go into the fryer.


    There is now a spare RCD and breakers in the cupboard with the consumer unit, because I had to get spares posted over from Northern Ireland and it takes time.


    Personally I would rip the consumer unit out and replace it with an all double pole 30 mA RCBO consumer unit and a 300 mA upfront RCD in the tails, but I’m not the one who pays the bills so it will stay as it is unless there’s a complete loss of power for an entire shift.
  • 0
    Chip shop fires seem to be prevalent. We had one that I was told about in the one and only chip shop in a building with a thatched roof in Norfolk.


    Anther case.....

    Bond's chip shop owner speaks about fire in Aylsham | North Norfolk News


    Z.
  • 0
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    Z that is very unlikely. You accept much higher risks all the time. When you drive you accept a risk in the same terms of about 1 in 2000. Not driving or using the roads at all reduces this risk to a higher level to the electrical risk, that of being hit by a vehicle whilst walking. The only way to get zero risk from that particular accident is to stay in bed, where the risk is about 1500 in 60 million every day! There is a mad idea circulating in recent times that risk can be reduced to zero, (or perhaps zero Covid, but that's another story). This is impossible. Just living has many risks, some of which may be somewhat reduced with countermeasures, but they cannot ever be made zero. The only zero "risk to life" existence is to be dead! You need to get a grip on the magnitudes of various risks because otherwise, they will ruin your life completely and you will never enjoy anything. Using Electricity is extremely safe for everyone, but the risk cannot be made zero, although some highly deluded people seem to think it can. You will not even be safe from electricity if you live in a tent with no supply within 20 miles, the lightning will get you!


    Dave, I had a bad feeling about the premises. Main bonding clamps were not connected, just floating in mid air. One M.C.B.. was randomly tripping off due to overloading. The business owners wanted a cheap job. I just did not want to get involved but put in a highish estimate so that the remedial  work could be done properly. I did not get the work, anther electrician won the job(s). I wasn't too bothered about that.


    Z.


  • 0
    If we do an online search for chip shop fires, a long list comes up, with shocking images.


    Perhaps insurance companies will insist on this type of deep oil fryer automatic fire suppression system in the future.

    Fire Suppression System | Fish and Chip Frying Ranges (hopkins.biz)


    Z.
  • 0
    Never mind Zoom lad,

    In the past I`ve outpriced jobs deliberately so a not to get them (for one reason or another) and still you get the blighters


    Some folk can be so unreasonable and not go for the cheapest quotes when you want em to!
  • 0
    ebee:

    Never mind Zoom lad,

    In the past I`ve outpriced jobs deliberately so a not to get them (for one reason or another) and still you get the blighters


    Some folk can be so unreasonable and not go for the cheapest quotes when you want em to!


    Gosh ebee I am overworked and need a long restful holiday. I have work booked in for a few weeks now. But I don't cook chips at home. I just boil everything, far safer.

    Chip Pans: Fire Bomb - Bing video


    Z.


  • 0
    ebee:

    Never mind Zoom lad,

    In the past I`ve outpriced jobs deliberately so a not to get them (for one reason or another) and still you get the blighters


    Some folk can be so unreasonable and not go for the cheapest quotes when you want em to!


    Yes, I know as a customer, I wanted an electrician to do a job for me. The sparks agreed to the work but over priced it and I still wanted the work done having arranged a day and time with the client. The sparks then changed their availability. So I had to do it myself. Absolutely no way I'm able to recommend that person in the future.  Probably a very good sparks between tea breaks.

    Legh


  • 0
    RichardCS2:
    Chris Pearson:

    The lifetime risk of death is 1. Exactly 1.


    Whilst we have every reason to believe this is true, the empirical answer is 0.97. :-) That 3% of all the humans who have ever lived have not yet died tells us something interesting about population growth. 




    I initially read that the other way around - only 3% have died and didn't find it implausible!


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