The IET is carrying out some important updates between 17-30 April and all of our websites will be view only. For more information, read this Announcement

Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 157 replies
  • Subscribers 31 subscribers
  • Views 9552 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Ring Main at Consumer unit

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
My daughter has just had an electrical safety check done and I suspect that the electrician has been over zeleous..

Would anyone care to comment.


There is no grommet where the meter tails enter the consumer unit and the outer insulation stops just short of the knockout.

He has graded this C1.   Now my opinion is that that does not present an  an immediate threat to the safety of personell

It needs fixing but surely only a C2?


More intriguing.  He gives a C3 to the ring circuit because the two legs enter the consumer unit through separate knock outs.  I can't find that in the regs


And finally an old chestnut which has been discussed before.   A C3 because two radial "circuits" are served by a single breaker..  I have always argued that the definition of a circuit is that it is served by a single breaker.  Certainly if both radials were brought to a junction box outside the CU and then connected to the breaker by a single cable it would meet the definition of a radial..


Thanks for your attention

  • 0
    RCBO boards are the way to go, saves four ways, much neater and easier for customers to reset. Prices are are good now, double pole available, it’s all I fit now generally. Nothing wrong with split boards until there’s a fault and you loose half the house due to a simple neutral to earth fault.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    No it isn't the same.  If it is a C1 I would have to ask the DNO to immediately disconnect the supply and effectively evacuate the house.  If it is a C2 then we can get a electrician to repair it at relative leisure.

    I don't think it is a rip off just a bad understanding of the regs and the implications of a C1.
  • 0
    The tails could in some situations be perfectly well restrained by a pair of plastic P clips and achieve the same pull out resistance as a gland or grommet.  If that is the case  or not depends on details we cannot see from here .


    I'd not exactly be lying awake sweating over this 'c1', it is not really a C1 of the 'house burns down tonight' kind, more of a 'not quite right, just get it fixed some time'.  To me C3 maybe C2.


    Mean while you will all remain safe as long as they can resist the urge to pull hard on the meter tails, or to stab them with sharp knives where the outer sheath is absent, and  do not poke coat-hanger ends up the oversized hole along side them into the consumer unit.


    A radial circuit is any wiring layout that is not a ring, and because the text books show the noddy example as a daisy chain of light fittings or sockets, folk of limited imaginative  thinking imagine that is the only radial layout  that is permitted. 

    It is not !

    There is nothing stopping you having a radial layout that has branches like a Christmas Tree, or is centre fed so there are 2 cables at the fuse board, or combinations of the above. So long as the cable rating is greater than the trip rating that projects it, no regs are broken.


    The 'borrowed neutral' problem sometimes seen where upstairs and downstairs lights meet at the stairs in a dual gang switch, and current for one light flows back down the neutral of the wrong circuit.

    Easy enouhg to avoid, but a sod to fix if the mistake is plastered in already - so the quick fix is to put the upstairs landing light on the downstairs wiring so it is not the wrong circuit anymore.


    Getting an isolator fitted between meter and consumer unit is a good idea, and the company you pay the bills to can advise how much that costs.

    Many normal sparks will remove the DNO  fuse and just fit an isolator, and then refit the fuse, and that is also fine, but the DNOs do vary quite a bit with how much they will tolerate that or not, and strictly to cut their seal is tampering with their kit and a civil offence,  so the detail of practice varies by region.

    Mike.


    Mike.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Whilst cutting the seal may be an offence it would be almost impossible to identify the perp.   "A bloke I met in the pub did it for cash.  He was called Dave" :-)
  • 0
    Best delete that post with the url


    Bit mob rule all this



     


  • 0
    dcbwhaley:

    This is he    https://www.royleelectrical.co.uk/electrical-service.


    My daughter was recommended him by a neighbour and was impressed by the web site.  He appears well qualified    registered members of the NICEIC  and lots of City and Guilds.


    He charged somewhat over £200.  I don't know if that is cheap


    The mods will not be happy with the advert, it goes against forum rules etc.  You'll be sent to Netherworld or beyond with no tea.


    Z.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    What advert?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    I am not an EICR trained person but most of the codes are either obviously right or obviously wrong

    No it isn't the same.  If it is a C1 I would have to ask the DNO to immediately disconnect the supply and effectively evacuate the house.  If it is a C2 then we can get a electrician to repair it at relative leisure.

    I don't think it is a rip off just a bad understanding of the regs and the implications of a C1. 


    So it's ok to criticise some workmanship and then advocate the following?

    Whilst cutting the seal may be an offence it would be almost impossible to identify the perp.   "A bloke I met in the pub did it for cash.  He was called Dave" :-)


    It doesn't help your case.


    BOD
  • 0
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    I'm afraid your "friend" should NOT be an approved contractor. Reason: complete lack of basic knowledge. Just imagine his EICR, total disaster!


    Dave,

    I do not disagree with your point here, I know that is a perception shared by quite a few contractors (NIC or not). An urban myth amongst many. Hence why I pointed this one out to my friend, Possibly past assessors in NIC encourage such thoughts  I suspect.


    Ref RCBOs , yes Dave it`s the way I have usually persuaded as being an advantage because of the extra resilience during earth fault on one circuit not affecting another circuit resulting in loss of fridge/freezer or boiler for example and to ensure only loss of a lighting circuit caused by a fault on that particular circuit. Another reason , cooker circuits can sometimes be quite lossy ins res even when brand new . Electric shower leaks perhaps too. If not a complete RCBO set up then dual RCDs but RCBOs for boiler, cooker & shower as a min spec for me. Having said that I have been a complete front ender in my home installation  for quite a few years without many problems, however I do realise problems can result from soley 2 RCDs in a whole installation setup and I`d rather reduce that risk. For years many of my customers for house rewires have been 60, 70, 80 and even 90 years of age and I realise just losing a portion rather than a lot at once can make a difference not just for safety but also their piece of mind, more so than with the younger client.

     


  • 0
    dcbwhaley:

    I have has consumer units changed in two properties and in both cases the electricians - different ones - kept the tails live.  They said that dealing with the DNO was too much hassle.


    They worked with live tails? Madness.


    Z.


Join us to get the best from IET EngX.

Joining EngX lets you personalise your experience so you stay up to date on the topics that interest you, plus you’ll be able to make connections who are looking to collaborate, exchange ideas and more.

Join us Not now

Community Rules & Guidelines