Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 157 replies
  • Subscribers 32 subscribers
  • Views 9731 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Ring Main at Consumer unit

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
My daughter has just had an electrical safety check done and I suspect that the electrician has been over zeleous..

Would anyone care to comment.


There is no grommet where the meter tails enter the consumer unit and the outer insulation stops just short of the knockout.

He has graded this C1.   Now my opinion is that that does not present an  an immediate threat to the safety of personell

It needs fixing but surely only a C2?


More intriguing.  He gives a C3 to the ring circuit because the two legs enter the consumer unit through separate knock outs.  I can't find that in the regs


And finally an old chestnut which has been discussed before.   A C3 because two radial "circuits" are served by a single breaker..  I have always argued that the definition of a circuit is that it is served by a single breaker.  Certainly if both radials were brought to a junction box outside the CU and then connected to the breaker by a single cable it would meet the definition of a radial..


Thanks for your attention

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    What qualifications do you need to do EICRs?


    Ability to spell helps understanding for one............


    The same "qualifications" as someone maintaining the brakes on your vehicle. 


    653.5: "The Report shall be compiled and signed or otherwise authenticated by one or more skilled persons competent in such work." 


    For the definition of skilled, see Part 2 Definitions


    Regards


    BOD


  • 0
    Zoomup:
    dcbwhaley:

    I have has consumer units changed in two properties and in both cases the electricians - different ones - kept the tails live.  They said that dealing with the DNO was too much hassle.


    They worked with live tails? Madness.




    This is a bit like saying, "Why should I pay £9.35 for my prescription when my life depends upon it?"


    I shall explain ...


    The answer is, of course, "Saving your life for £9.35 is the best value that you will ever get."


    OK, DNO's jointers work live and have a method. I am sure that one can work with live tails, but for the cost of a DNO disconnection (if you don't want to break the seals yourself), I agree that it is bonkers, or in psychiatric shorthand, "IG11".


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    No.  I am merely asking for a second opinion on his conclusions.  If he is confident of therm that should cause him no pain.


    I have spoken to him and he is adamant that the missing grommet where the tails enter the CU is a C1 and that we should have the DNO disconnect the the power to the house until this can be sorted.  His reasoning is if the my daughter was standing on a ladder with his hand on the consumer unit when the insulation finally gave way there was both a risk of electrocution and of falling

    My advice to herr is not to touch the CU until the problem is resolved..  And there is a bed for her at dcb-towers if she wishes to follow the EICR advice

  • 0
    That is just wrong. At the moment, the insulation is intact. C2 and fix at earliest convenience.
  • 0
    More info required.
    1. Earthing system

    • Consumer Unit construction

  • 0
    IG 11 is of course an Ilford postcode, and for those not London or Essex based, zone 11 refers to Barking, which is  not far from Dagenham on the map.

    However it is the phrase Barking Mad, presumably so named after anyone silly enough to want to live or work anywhere near London, that we are after here.

    Mike
  • 0
    dcbwhaley:

    No.  I am merely asking for a second opinion on his conclusions.  If he is confident of therm that should cause him no pain.


    I have spoken to him and he is adamant that the missing grommet where the tails enter the CU is a C1 and that we should have the DNO disconnect the the power to the house until this can be sorted.  His reasoning is if the my daughter was standing on a ladder with his hand on the consumer unit when the insulation finally gave way there was both a risk of electrocution and of falling

    My advice to herr is not to touch the CU until the problem is resolved..  And there is a bed for her at dcb-towers if she wishes to follow the EICR advice

     


    So now you will not be standing on a ladder touching what is presumably a metal enclosure consumer unit eh? Is it metal?


    Is the cable insulation tight up against the metal?


    Me, I would pull the main fuse, get the problem sorted out and later get U.K.P.N. to attend to reseal the main fuse explaining that we had an emergency.


    I have just repaired a similar deficiency where a 16.0mm2 T&E cable entered a metal enclosure with no grommet in a consumer unit. Unsheathed red and black conductors were visible, and at a push touchable. That situation had existed for perhaps 50 years. Nobody was shocked or killed in that period.


    Of course in some situations, a live metal consumer unit may liven up all of the exposed conductive parts in the installation as well. So you could have live appliances cases.


    Z.




     


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Earthing: TN-S

    Construction: metal
  • 0
    I think that this is going too far, Gentlemen. We do not criticise newer posters or try to take them apart. Whilst the primary insulation might be exposed, it is still impossible to get a shock from it and this "Inspector" seems to believe that sheathed cables are "double insulated" for safety which is not the case, see my SWA post. Cables without grommets need serious mechanical movement to even begin to be damaged by the hole edges (as you all know). This is a case of poor workmanship from both points of view, and really only deserves a C3, or if damage is visible a C2. A metal consumer unit cannot "liven up" unless the install is TT, A fault here will pop the head fuse. A neutral fault is not serious.


    I am seriously fed up with these ridiculous arguments with BAD EICRs, this is simply a demonstration that the qualification requirements are entirely inadequate, in that any Tom, Dick, or Harry seems to think they can do a competent job. It is now completely obvious to everyone who reads here that this is NOT the case. EICRs are simply being used as a method to get unnecessary work, by means of meaningless inspection reports. This is fraud by any name, and we need a qualification system with real, preferably dangerous, teeth. These need to be being struck off the competent persons register personally, fines, and in the worst cases prison. Regulation similar to the legal or financial areas of life is needed, all this has gone on far too long.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    His argument is that the time between the insulation failing and and the head fuse "popping" is sufficient for a severe shock to be delivered and that that is doubly dangerous when the shockee is standing on a chair.   Which is why I advised my daughter not to open the door of the cupboard containing the CU.  (Is 20mm of dry wood a good insulator?)


    On your second paragraph:  I must be fair to this inspector: He is not touting for work. as he assures that he has more work than he can cope with. 

    Buti t is clear that the EICR system is seriously flawed if the same installation can be both satisfactory or unsatisfactory according to who examines it on the same day.   It is interesting to compare this to the MoT test for cars where the standards are far less subjective.  And where, if you do think the Inspector is a rip off merchant there is a DVLA appeals procedure or it only costs £40 to get the test done again by honest John.   With an EICR failure there appears to be no appeal route and it is prohibitivly expensive  to get the inspection done again.


    Of course the whole business of frequent updates to the regulations  is a fraudsters charter.   I was once told that my 20 year old property needed a complete rewire because it didn't conform to the 18th edition.  Obviously I didn't fall for that but there are people who would.

Join us to get the best from IET EngX.

Joining EngX lets you personalise your experience so you stay up to date on the topics that interest you, plus you’ll be able to make connections who are looking to collaborate, exchange ideas and more.

Join us Not now

Community Rules & Guidelines