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Ring Main at Consumer unit

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
My daughter has just had an electrical safety check done and I suspect that the electrician has been over zeleous..

Would anyone care to comment.


There is no grommet where the meter tails enter the consumer unit and the outer insulation stops just short of the knockout.

He has graded this C1.   Now my opinion is that that does not present an  an immediate threat to the safety of personell

It needs fixing but surely only a C2?


More intriguing.  He gives a C3 to the ring circuit because the two legs enter the consumer unit through separate knock outs.  I can't find that in the regs


And finally an old chestnut which has been discussed before.   A C3 because two radial "circuits" are served by a single breaker..  I have always argued that the definition of a circuit is that it is served by a single breaker.  Certainly if both radials were brought to a junction box outside the CU and then connected to the breaker by a single cable it would meet the definition of a radial..


Thanks for your attention

  • 0
    dcbwhaley:

    No.  I am merely asking for a second opinion on his conclusions.  If he is confident of therm that should cause him no pain.


    I have spoken to him and he is adamant that the missing grommet where the tails enter the CU is a C1 and that we should have the DNO disconnect the the power to the house until this can be sorted.  His reasoning is if the my daughter was standing on a ladder with his hand on the consumer unit when the insulation finally gave way there was both a risk of electrocution and of falling

    My advice to herr is not to touch the CU until the problem is resolved..  And there is a bed for her at dcb-towers if she wishes to follow the EICR advice

     


    This is not an immediate danger - it may be not how he would do it, nor indeed many on here, and should  be tidied up in due course, but is a long way from being as serious as suggested.


    C1 would be reserved for bare live copper within reach, or an equivalent.  Given we are talking about primary insulation intact, metal boxes earthed, what you have describe could be C3 or perhaps C2 depending quite what else is wrong there. Not exactly a matter of life and death.

    Perhaps he should take a few foreign holidays once it is permitted again, to re-calibrate his sense of electrical danger.  I can recommend Eastern bloc, or south American, installations as being very educational examples of things that are actually quite safe by demonstration, but it does not look like it to our standards.

    Mike.


     


  • 0
    Thanks for the reply.

    The MOT system is however rather different. The DOT has a number of Inspectors who routinely take cars to various MOT stations to have the car tested. The MOT station is then marked for quality and if the situation is not satisfactory the station may be delisted or the staff responsible required to take more training. There are also update courses which are mandatory, regularly.


    This is not the case for EICRs. You will immediately see that the difference is extremely important. The certifying bodies are not very interested in much which is quality and are largely "cash for logo" schemes, whatever their name may imply. The City and Guilds qualification has been dumbed down so significantly that it is easy to pass because "the pass rate is too low"! The regulations exam (open book) has a pass mark of 60%, which is not far below many of the candidates' scores, although it is quite possible to look up every correct answer in the time available. Full marks are extremely unusual. I would suggest that the inspectors should have a pass of at least 90%, but then there would be virtually NO inspectors.


    He may not want more work, then why do EICRs? This does not make sense. The next change that I would like to see is that reparations could not be carried out by the Inspector, his Company, or any other directly interested party. He should not be able to suggest another Contractor by Law with severe penalties. You will note that with the MOT you may have repairs anywhere you choose, a second opinion on what is needed.

    There is a system in place to report difficulties.
  • 0
    To reply to a post, about fitting a CCU, yes... I know that I need to join a 'scheme,' and thanks for the reply.


    I have to mention, when I was a young sparky... I would sit, and watch, my foreman, (Tommy Church), routing RY&B + neutrals, of course... through a TP&N busbar chamber, haha, LIVE on a regular basis! Back then, I too would have done this but, not now, as I can see how dangerous it is! 


    Old skule, you see! 


  • 0
    mapj1:

    IG 11 is of course an Ilford postcode, and for those not London or Essex based, zone 11 refers to Barking, which is  not far from Dagenham on the map.

    However it is the phrase Barking Mad, presumably so named after anyone silly enough to want to live or work anywhere near London, that we are after here.


    Or just plain barking as in somebody's behaviour which is not entirely rational, but which does not satisfy the definition of an illness. So glad that my remark did not fall upon stony ground. ?


  • 0
    Just out of interest, how for the consumer unit get installed without a grommet around the tails and the cable sheaths cut short in the first place?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I am not entirely sure until I re-examine it on Saturday.  

    The tails come out of the bottom of the CU and turn quite sharply.  There is a grommet on the c#tails but it is about 20mm away from the CU

    I think that it was properly installed in the first instance but that the sharp turn made it less than solid  Thent when the smart meter was installed they gave the tails enough of a tug to dislodge the grommet
  • 0
    So on page four we find out there is a grommet, but in the wrong place.


    So the question is can it be reinstated and the tails repositioned without straining terminations on the new Smart meter?


    By the way if the seals are cut and the main fuse pulled the meter will report you and there may be a knock on the door from the Revenue Protection team before you have time to get it back in again, also everything was photographed when the meter was installed.
  • 0
    Sparkingchip:

    So on page four we find out there is a grommet, but in the wrong place.


    So the question is can it be reinstated and the tails repositioned without straining terminations on the new Smart meter?


    By the way if the seals are cut and the main fuse pulled the meter will report you and there may be a knock on the door from the Revenue Protection team before you have time to get it back in again, also everything was photographed when the meter was installed.


    Don't wobble meter tails as the connections can, and do, come loose. Fiddling and moving meter tails can cause all sorts of problems. That is why special large tails' glands are available that grip the tails firmly to prevent loosening of electrical terminals at main switches or R.C.D.s inside consumer units.

    Wiska TKE/P 50mm Tail Kit Gland for 3 Phase Tails (peclights.com) Available in more than one size.


    Z.


  • 0
    The smart meter installer may well have installed P-clips on the meter tails to hold them securely, Plan B would be to move the consumer unit down or up by just over 20 mm.


    The caveats being the risk of the live meter tail pinging out of the main switch terminal and there may be some immovable cables exiting it.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member


    By the way if the seals are cut and the main fuse pulled the meter will report you and there may be a knock on the door from the Revenue Protection team before you have time to get it back in again, also everything was photographed when the meter was installed.


    Can the smart meter distinguish between the tails being disconnected or the main switch on the CU being opened?


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