This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Possibly changing the 5 Second Disconnection Limit

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
I'm doing some theoretical calculations, and I'm debating that the 5 second disconnection may have to be lowered in circuits 32-225 amps where fed from an extensive LV supply network. IMO, The voltage may not sag far enough at the supply terminals to result in a touch voltage of 50-75 volts to remote earth. On the other hand, large circuits may be relaxed to 10 seconds and 15 seconds with no ill effect from a basis of shock protection.


I'm also debating that adiabatic limits make an assumption of 10 seconds disconnection for circuits 63 amps and below on the basis of external Ze changes.


Granted these changes would be on orders of magnitude more prudent for NFPA-70 and CSA C22, however it is still worth considering.


Right now I am putting together a frame work for various touch voltages for given network configurations and interior wiring practices seen around the world.  

Parents
  • Indeed, discussion is not normally a problem here, and is usually quite civilised, if sometimes terse,  though some err, "mission creep"  / " topic drift" is not unknown. ? 

    I think we can all be guilty of forgetting the assumptions that underpin the way we do stuff, and seemingly 'basic' questions like 'why exactly 5 seconds ?' are often not at all easy to answer, comparisons to other places are often very interesting.

    This does not mean we are going to suddenly change the mains voltage to 110v or anything, but it does not hurt to keep the door open to 'but what if ?' 

    See you further down the log I hope.
    LATE Edit

    Looking at 250-122 (I do not normally look at 110V land regs so had to find a copy) it is the CPC size for various breaker ratings. This seems, unlike real cable ratings, to have current rating scaled linearly with area,

    so 

    6kA calls up 800 kcm ~ 450mm2

    and 3kA calls up 400kcm  ~220mm2

    1500A calls up 4/0 or about 120mm2

    ???

    This makes ratings for lower currents a bit oversized - 30A (6mm2) or 20A (4mm ) look quite big to UK eyes

     This constant scale factor is not what we would do in the UK  - larger cables do not cool as well as small ones, (though they do have more thermal inertia so yo umay be OK for your long-ish breaking times),  and that on AC the current is not using the full cross-section.

    Instead, the preferred approach where we have have no choice but to to throw around that many amps (and really we strongly prefer to get closer to the load at a higher voltage if possible, so high rise buildings may have HV LV transformers part way up) is to go for multiple bunches of thinner conductors in parallel, these would be  grouped into phase triplets 'trefoils'  or phase and neutral 'quarofoils' so the magnetic effects are somewhat cancelling.
         


    Mike.
Reply
  • Indeed, discussion is not normally a problem here, and is usually quite civilised, if sometimes terse,  though some err, "mission creep"  / " topic drift" is not unknown. ? 

    I think we can all be guilty of forgetting the assumptions that underpin the way we do stuff, and seemingly 'basic' questions like 'why exactly 5 seconds ?' are often not at all easy to answer, comparisons to other places are often very interesting.

    This does not mean we are going to suddenly change the mains voltage to 110v or anything, but it does not hurt to keep the door open to 'but what if ?' 

    See you further down the log I hope.
    LATE Edit

    Looking at 250-122 (I do not normally look at 110V land regs so had to find a copy) it is the CPC size for various breaker ratings. This seems, unlike real cable ratings, to have current rating scaled linearly with area,

    so 

    6kA calls up 800 kcm ~ 450mm2

    and 3kA calls up 400kcm  ~220mm2

    1500A calls up 4/0 or about 120mm2

    ???

    This makes ratings for lower currents a bit oversized - 30A (6mm2) or 20A (4mm ) look quite big to UK eyes

     This constant scale factor is not what we would do in the UK  - larger cables do not cool as well as small ones, (though they do have more thermal inertia so yo umay be OK for your long-ish breaking times),  and that on AC the current is not using the full cross-section.

    Instead, the preferred approach where we have have no choice but to to throw around that many amps (and really we strongly prefer to get closer to the load at a higher voltage if possible, so high rise buildings may have HV LV transformers part way up) is to go for multiple bunches of thinner conductors in parallel, these would be  grouped into phase triplets 'trefoils'  or phase and neutral 'quarofoils' so the magnetic effects are somewhat cancelling.
         


    Mike.
Children
No Data