I am interested in comments from anyone on the youtube videos, there are several purporting to show EICR procedures. As most know I am currently researching this, and am collecting data.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzdQ4kH1G6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlwmp7Ks2w
are of particular interest, ignore any comments I may have left, I want your comments.
Kind regards
David
Colin, you are suggesting that this is potentially dangerous. Why? If you are reasonably risk-averse you will use an RCD plug, if not why do you care? I assume you are going for idiot-proof protection, but most of us do not need this. If you have no knowledge of RCD protection, what is your reason to want it? It is fairly easy not to run over the cable with the lawnmower, but I have a petrol one! It has not exploded to date, despite having covered many hundreds of hectares. In fact, I have many tools which in idiot's hands could do me harm, but so far none has succeeded. Is life fundamentally safe? NO!
I do not lay wake at night worrying if any of my many non RCD installations still in existence have killed anybody yet.
In fact I remember at senior school age being told by some council electricians that MCBs instead of rewireable fuses saved you from being electrocuted!
Oh OK then
Colin, I will add a second point. You say is an Honours Degree important? It used to be. Perhaps you would like to discuss some bit of electrical engineering which you think important. OK fair enough, I am game. I gave the answer I did because Sparkingchip challenged me to some kind of duel. You may think I ought to have the electricians qualifications from C&G. I will challenge any of you to do any of the things you “learnt” better than you be it conduit, MICC, wiring in general, installation design, whatever you like. However the opposite also applies, EMC, electronics, even BS7671. Does anyone want the challenge? I rather doubt it. Can you follow a set of mechanical drawings to make anything, I make model steam engines for fun? I make radio transmitters as a Radio Amateur, I collect test instruments, do any of you know what a network analyser is or own one, or know what a Smith chart is? Let's leave it there, shall we?
davezawadi (David Stone):
Colin, you are suggesting that this is potentially dangerous. Why? If you are reasonably risk-averse you will use an RCD plug, if not why do you care? I assume you are going for idiot-proof protection, but most of us do not need this. If you have no knowledge of RCD protection, what is your reason to want it? It is fairly easy not to run over the cable with the lawnmower, but I have a petrol one! It has not exploded to date, despite having covered many hundreds of hectares. In fact, I have many tools which in idiot's hands could do me harm, but so far none has succeeded. Is life fundamentally safe? NO!
Dave - you seem to be making this somewhat personal - Andy SparkingChip is just following industry standard guidance which says “Absence of RCD protection for portable or mobile equipment that may reasonably be expected to be used outdoors” is a C2. You may or may not not like the guidance, but don't shoot the messenger as it were.
- Andy.
No Andy(2), I was not, I was defending myself against all comers! I do not see really why this might be C2, because if this is C2, so are many other things where a little care and understanding are needed. By accident statistics, using the road, driving, or walking on a pavement must all be C2, they all have many more bad outcomes than using electricity outdoors has. Therefore the question is “why attack electricity?” one of the safest and greatest inventions of mankind. I also suggested that “fixed” RCDs are not the only solution, others are equally satisfactory.
411.3.3 mandates RCD protection for all sockets in dwellings (> 32 A is hardly domestic) and mobile equipment for use outdoors. Mobile equipment includes things on wheels (e.g. pressure washer, lawnmower) and well as portable equipment - anything which may be carried, not just hedge trimmers.
The mobile equipment does not necessarily need to be connected by plug and socket.
It could have said that all sockets in outbuildings must be RCD protected, but it doesn't. One might apply C3 for paragraphs (i) and (ii), but 2 x C3 ≠ C2.
So I don't see why the position of a standard BS 1363 affects the code. I am not afraid of my sockets at home, so I shall stick with C3.
I do not see really why this might be C2
From the individual electrician's point of view, it's because industry guidance explicitly says it is - and if we want consistent high quality EICRs then surely it's good if we're all singing from the same hymn sheet as it were.
From an industry point of view it's because under certain foreseeable single-fault conditions, the level of safety provided would be very substantially lower than an installation meeting current regulations in the same circumstances. It seems logical to me to treat basic insulation exposed to touch, lack of earthing on class I equipment and unreliable ADS (e.g. due to excessive Zs) in a similar way - and these days I think most would agree that such defects should be regarded as making the installation “unsatisfactory” - hence a C2 as a minimum, since C3s by definition can't result in an unsatisfactory.
Yes, I agree, we have far higher standards than on the roads - but compared with most things, it's the roads that are treated exceptionally (most safety legislation needs an explicit exception not to apply to road transport) - I can't think of any other sector that would accept the best part of 2k deaths/year and 200k KSI. Time passes and society's expectations move on. What was perfectly acceptable in 1970s is sometime quite unacceptable now (in many areas, not just electricity). We need to keep up.
- Andy.
davezawadi (David Stone):
I am interested in comments from anyone on the youtube videos, there are several purporting to show EICR procedures. As most know I am currently researching this, and am collecting data.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzdQ4kH1G6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlwmp7Ks2w
are of particular interest, ignore any comments I may have left, I want your comments.
Hi Dave, donning my tinfoil cap I have a theory to put forth….
the smart meter roll out has been deliberately rubbish, the regs have been deliberately confused and within the next nine years
Weirdbeard:
davezawadi (David Stone):
I am interested in comments from anyone on the youtube videos, there are several purporting to show EICR procedures. As most know I am currently researching this, and am collecting data.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzdQ4kH1G6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlwmp7Ks2w
are of particular interest, ignore any comments I may have left, I want your comments.
Hi Dave, donning my tinfoil cap I have a theory to put forth….
the smart meter roll out has been deliberately rubbish, the regs have been deliberately confused and within the next nine years
smart consumer units will become popular, perhaps installed free on certain tariffs
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