I am interested in comments from anyone on the youtube videos, there are several purporting to show EICR procedures. As most know I am currently researching this, and am collecting data.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzdQ4kH1G6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlwmp7Ks2w
are of particular interest, ignore any comments I may have left, I want your comments.
Kind regards
David
The Landlords Electrical Safety legislation states:
“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards”
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2020/9780111191934
can you explain how you meet the three criteria to be classified as a qualified person in accordance with the legislation:
exactly what training, qualifications and experience do you have to meet each of the requisite requirements, particularly the third criteria a person competent to undertake any remedial work ?
Note that the landlord regs require the inspection to be done by an electrically competent person, but places no constraint on how the testing should be done. In particular it doesn't have to be to BS 7671. So you could hire an electrician to write a report stating how closely the electrical installation follows the principles of fung sui and you would have complied with the regs.
There is a separate requirement that that the rented installation must comply with BS 7671:2018 at all times, with no allowance for older work. So it is illegal to rent out a property with sockets not RCD protected (although the government guidance says otherwise, which a landlord could use as a defence).
@davezawadi (David Stone) as you said to Jordan of Artisan, perhaps you would care to list your qualifications for EICRs and in addition detail how they match the criteria set out in the legislation as I posted above.
I will attempt to answer your points Andy.
That is the basic question that I am trying to answer Andy, but at this point, I am not prepared to say exactly why, but you may be able to work that out for yourself. The minimum requirement must be the 18th edition exam and C&G 2391, (or possibly earlier manifestation 2394 and 2395). Earlier versions of 2391 were much harder, not open book and written. The pass rate was very small, from experience around 10-15%.
This one is particularly interesting because the man in video 1 says in another video that he particularly dislikes “fault-finding”. I wonder why, this is probably the most interesting job that electricians have, but it does require a much better understanding of circuits and measurements than installation.
Most electricians do not seem to enjoy repairs, and there may be a number of reasons for this. It is necessary to understand the second point above, and one rarely gets the satisfaction of a complete installation. It also could be that points 2 and 3 are generally not as remunerative as a new installation, and take less time so more jobs are necessary to keep busy.
As far as previous editions of BS7671 go, it is not reasonable to say that older installations become “unsafe” because of the changes to regulations. This cannot be sustained because the accident statistics do not support this view, and the update of every installation every few years is obviously ridiculous. If we were to adopt such a requirement, alterations to BS7671 would have to virtually stop, and it is worth remembering that most changes do not come from the UK, they are from CENELEC and the IEC, etc. and it is international agreement (which may be rubber-stamping) that makes many of the changes, and some are simply editorial.
Whilst the Inspector must have reasonable latitude in his comments, many feel that this has gone too far, particularly customers and presently landlords. Because the EICR is now enshrined in law, there must be a good degree of similarity between inspectors, just as there is for car MOTs. MOT inspectors are fairly rigorously inspected and controlled, with sanctions if they “cheat” the system both for failure to note defects or being too strict. Should we have such a system for EICR inspectors?
You wonder about my qualifications Andy?
OK fair enough. I have an Honours degree, I am a Chartered Electrical Engineer, I have more than 40 years of experience in the Electrical Industry, I have done more inspections than have probably had hot dinners, I have taught in College and for Stroma, I have the old 2391 (first time pass), I serve on the IET Wiring Regulations Policy committee, and try to help on the forum as much as possible.
Perhaps you would care to define your qualifications?
I keep reminding myself of 651.1 and 651.2 :-) especially that non-compliances [to current Regs] are not always ‘unsafe’ in [older] installations and aspects observed may just require noting for improvement re: current Regs…even when it's not known to which Regs an installation was designed and constructed.
I'm not a great believer that C&G exams are the ‘be all’ - subject experience and sound science understanding counts for a huge amount (perhaps more) - people on here regularly demonstrate and remind me of that - though one accepts that a good awareness of current Regs is required to know what one is inspecting to ‘of the moment’.
What regs were current at the time of install is not relevant.
does the installation comply now?
If not is it “safe” (relatively speaking).
A good few years back now I was asked to I & T a previous domestic install I`d done say 12 years or something prior. Rewireable fuses - I did a lot of them back in the day.
I did the report (PIR back then) and listed some defects and explained that regs had changed since I installed and that`s the reason I had noted defects. Well I go alsorts of stick “You did it!” Blah Blah Blah
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