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Requirements for an electrical design & the EIC form signature

Former Community Member
Former Community Member

 

I’ve read the interesting post at Who is the electrical installation designer? - IET Engineering Communities (theiet.org) on “Who is the electrical installation designer?” but my thought is somewhat different else I would have tagged onto that thread.

I’ve also read the posts at  Electrical Design Courses & Regulations Recommendations (London, UK) - IET Engineering Communities (theiet.org) regarding the training and competence needed for electrical design and having been involved in electrical works for a considerable period am familiar with the significance of this role. Indeed, when I ask for new works of a small size direct to an electrical contractor I always ensure that the wording of taking on board design liability is included, this such that they are clear and can also charge for that work and its responsibility.  Larger works may be by an electrical designer such as a consultant.

Considering that the EIC has an entry for design where it states:

FOR DESIGN

I/We being the person(s) responsible for the design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my/our signatures below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design and additionally where this certificate applies to an add1t1on or alteration, the safety of the existing installation is not impaired, hereby CERTIFY that the design work for which I/we have been responsible is to the best of my/our knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671 :2018, amended to ….. except for the departures, if any, detailed .as follows:  

What extent of information do readers consider to constitute an electrical design ?   Much of my reference information is in my office and I’ve not been there for 18 months so I thought I’d ask others what they considered to be the minimum information as to what comprises an electrical design for an installation has rather than trawl through other sources.  I thought it would be an interesting discussion point as well.

Paul.  

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    Chris Pearson: 
     

    lyledunn: 
    Any competent contractor should not implement a design that is obviously flawed.

    That's a bold statement!

    However, the designer certifies that he (she) has designed the installation i.a.w. BS 7671. The installer certifies that he (she) has installed i.a.w. BS 7671. So any installer must be capable of verifying that the design is sound.

    I doubt that it works this way in practice.

    In part, “that's a bold statement” - obviously flawed is the operative words here though..

    It kind of depends on the complexity of the design. Certainly if I imagine a big job - where the designer designs, the clients consultants approve, the main contractor takes on the job, the sub contractor(s) get to do the actual job, who's electricians and/or agency electricians do the actual job - how far down the chain does the electrician need to go to understand the design? 

    On a big job - Just do what you are contracted to do. End of liability really. Theres the design, install that. If the 120th electrician down the line doesn't approve of the design, should work cease so we can review what that guy deems to be flawed? 

    Clearly, I'd like to think the electrical engineer/install/contract Management for the Main contractor and at least the QS of the company that is doing the actual install might pick up on any design concerns, but not if its a little complex. 

    In vague answer to the OP - Usually on a small domestic circuit job though, even if its a whole household new circuit install…………there's no specific design at all I'm sure - just install to already approved perimeters as shown in the on site guide and - voila - you'll be OK, the circuit(s) will be OK and everyone will be happy. 

    As J.P. mentioned CDM - I know that CDM regs applies to any job, household or not, and that seldom gets considered on domestics. It seems to me, that most guys working on (occupied, especially) domestic premises would ask - health and safety? Whats that then? Design? What design?? Its a socket circuit/ light circuit, what design is there to do? As said above the on site guide already gives parameters under which designs would pass without further maths or considerations. 

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  • 0

    Chris Pearson: 
     

    lyledunn: 
    Any competent contractor should not implement a design that is obviously flawed.

    That's a bold statement!

    However, the designer certifies that he (she) has designed the installation i.a.w. BS 7671. The installer certifies that he (she) has installed i.a.w. BS 7671. So any installer must be capable of verifying that the design is sound.

    I doubt that it works this way in practice.

    In part, “that's a bold statement” - obviously flawed is the operative words here though..

    It kind of depends on the complexity of the design. Certainly if I imagine a big job - where the designer designs, the clients consultants approve, the main contractor takes on the job, the sub contractor(s) get to do the actual job, who's electricians and/or agency electricians do the actual job - how far down the chain does the electrician need to go to understand the design? 

    On a big job - Just do what you are contracted to do. End of liability really. Theres the design, install that. If the 120th electrician down the line doesn't approve of the design, should work cease so we can review what that guy deems to be flawed? 

    Clearly, I'd like to think the electrical engineer/install/contract Management for the Main contractor and at least the QS of the company that is doing the actual install might pick up on any design concerns, but not if its a little complex. 

    In vague answer to the OP - Usually on a small domestic circuit job though, even if its a whole household new circuit install…………there's no specific design at all I'm sure - just install to already approved perimeters as shown in the on site guide and - voila - you'll be OK, the circuit(s) will be OK and everyone will be happy. 

    As J.P. mentioned CDM - I know that CDM regs applies to any job, household or not, and that seldom gets considered on domestics. It seems to me, that most guys working on (occupied, especially) domestic premises would ask - health and safety? Whats that then? Design? What design?? Its a socket circuit/ light circuit, what design is there to do? As said above the on site guide already gives parameters under which designs would pass without further maths or considerations. 

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