Electrician fined for EICR.

Jaymack: 
 

Steve Briggs: 
 

Sadly, I believe this is only going to get worse. We regularly see new entrants into the industry obtaining the current (practically worthless) 2391 with no experience at all, for the express purpose of ‘doing landlord certs’. As always, regulation with good intent has produced the unintended and perverse outcome that you are FAR more likely to have work carried out by the incompetent than otherwise.

I doubt that 2391 is a cause. As I recall, there was an excessive rate of failure by “electricians” for 2391, it was considered too difficult to pass/too many failures, hence was watered down to another C & G number, in order to increase the pass rate. 

George Orwell and his Animal Farm kicked in. ? We are not all created equal.

Jaymack

Further, I think that so called EICR's are carried out by unqualified persons, under the umbrella of a a legitimate, registered body.     

So, is this it nowadays?

Course Description

The new  City & Guilds 2391-52  course is the new Inspection & Testing Combined Course that replaces and is improved on the former 2394/2395 that was previously available to electricians but has since been withdrawn. This testing course now has an open book assessment, meaning you can now check tables during the assessment, as you would in a real-life scenario.

• This City & Guilds 2391-52 course runs over five consecutive days, the first three days covering fundamental theory.
• The fourth day covers Initial Verification practical and revision.
• The fifth day of the City & Guilds 2391-52 course covers Periodic Inspection practical and revision with an open book 2 hours Multiple choice exam.

This is a 5 day City & Guilds 2391-52 course for students possessing knowledge of the wiring regulations and with minimal knowledge of inspection and testing of electrical installations. We strongly recommend City and Guilds 2382 is achieved prior to sitting this course, though this is NOT an entry requirement.

To claim the full City & Guilds 2391-52 qualification, students must successfully complete the following:

• Each student will sit a 2 hours online multiple-choice open book exam (sat during the course.)
• Students must reattend and complete a 4 hour long practical assessment.

Practical Assessment – 2391-52

• Task A – Visual Inspection – 30mins
• Task B – Periodic Inspection and Test – 2hrs and 30mins
• Task C – Short Answer Questions – 1hr and 20mins

Once the above is completed, an award in initial verification and periodic inspection will be achieved and qualification will be provided. Electricians will then be fully competent and qualified to carry out Inspection and Testing on electrical installations – a 2391 award is also required to join Part P schemes and gain a JIB gold card, making this course a high priority in your electrical training.

To further support this course, we offer a 1-day practical workshop (at the cost of £120.00 Net VAT) available to candidates who have completed the course and require further ‘hands-on’ practical experience prior to their practical exam. Most students who take this option elect to complete this the day before their practical assessment.

Chris Pearson: 
 

Splendid, absolutely splendid!

(Though I doubt that the fail, put in a new CU, poor quality EICRs will be caught - they are potentially a worse offense contrary to S.2 of the Fraud Act 2006.)

I read it as it says one of the reasons why he was in court may have been because he didn’t say it needs a new consumer unit.

To quote the report I linked to “He told the vendor a light fitting in the downstairs utility and shower room needed to be replaced but his report did not list any concerns despite estimating the electrics to be 40 years old.”.

I think we can now knock the idea that if it was okay forty years ago and has been left untouched it will probably be okay now, despite numerous updates to the Wiring Regulations, on the head.

That should presumably be taken as a legal precedent that forty year old installations are unlikely to be classed as satisfactory on an EICR?

Andy B.

Zoomup: 
Practical Assessment – 2391-52

• Task A – Visual Inspection – 30mins
• Task B – Periodic Inspection and Test – 2hrs and 30mins
• Task C – Short Answer Questions – 1hr and 20mins

My experience was that the 2394 Task B was one of the most difficult assessments that I have ever done, not least because the layout was kept secret. The chap in the bay next door bailed out after 20 min! It was easier in 2395 because it was the same bay, but with 2 added non-compliances.

Sparkingchip: 
That should presumably be taken as a legal precedent that forty year old installations are unlikely to be classed as satisfactory on an EICR?

Well, I give my 1982 installation a C3 for no RCD protection overall (some sockets have it) but then again, it was installed well and has not been messed about.

 

That should presumably be taken as a legal precedent that forty year old installations are unlikely to be classed as satisfactory on an EICR?

Andy B.

So what is 651.2 NOTE 2 all about then?

"……this does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe" Presumably meaning that they are “satisfactory for continued use.”

My home electrics are older than 40 years and present no immediate  danger.

Perhaps in the eyes of the inspector it did comply with 651.2. (i) to (vi).

653.2 requires only reporting on any non-compliance with the requirements of B.S. 7671  WHICH MAY GIVE RISE TO DANGER. (Caps. mine)

Z.

 

 a 2391 award is also required to join Part P schemes 

Not exactly true.

653.2 requires only reporting on any non-compliance with the requirements of B.S. 7671  WHICH MAY GIVE RISE TO DANGER. (Caps. mine) Z.

It appears your copy of the 18th is non compliant Z, as the actual text reads:

The Report shall include the following:

• details of those parts of the installation that have been inspected and tested
• any limitations of the inspection and testing
• any damage, deterioration, defects or dangerous conditions
• any non-compliance with the requirements of BS 7671 which may give rise to danger
• schedules of inspection as appropriate to those detailed in Section 642
• schedules of results of the appropriate tests detailed in Section 643

More so, Reg 651.4 requires: Details of any damage, deterioration, defects or dangerous conditions shall be recorded in a report.

Note the requirement for defect reporting is given equal status.

Regards

BOD

To give it a bit of context a forty year  old installation was installed around 1981, so it should have complied with the 14th or 15th edition of the Wiring Regulations and a VOELCB was still acceptable to protect a TT earthed installation rather than a RCD.

So it’s not surprising that the court commented that no concerns were raised, there should be a long list of concerns even if the installation did comply at the time of installation and has not been altered since then.

Therefore I consider that the premise that if it complied with the regulations forty years ago it will be okay now so there’s little to be concerned about has well and truly knocked on the head, because there’s now a legal precedent  that concerns are expected to be raised about an installation of that age and for many installations the recommendation to replace the fuse board with a consumer unit having 30 mA RCD protection for all final circuits is almost inevitable.

So. The main bulk of my wiring was about 1973. Bonding has been upgraded to 10mm (TNS at the time) . Sup bonding done. Type 2 MCBs and an up front RCD 30mA AC type covers all ccts. RCD tested by push button every three months and by test meter every 12 months. Full tests on ins res and continuity every 5 years and a couple of random points (or 10% if that is more than 2)  on each cct removed for viz inspection  Plastic consumer unit in kitchen. 

Any concerns?