Electrician fined for EICR.

Chris Pearson: 
 

Well, I give my 1982 installation a C3 for no RCD protection overall (some sockets have it) but then again, it was installed well and has not been messed about.

Warranted? - conformed before existing regulations.

Jaymack  

davezawadi (David Stone): 
 

Hm, as I predicted one can see the way this is going.

We have Toms installation, which is not the 18th amdt 1 but is probably safe from most of the things Tom is likely to do. It could be that you want RCD protection in case he drills the walls, but this does not mean a new CU. It could then be argued that this might be “inconvenient” so a raft of new RCBOs is required. Then someone notices that Tom has some electronic items, so it is necessary to fit type B RCBOs (Those seem to be a bit like hen's teeth), and as he is fairly old and may not notice a fire, AFDDs. You suggest that a bill for £3 grand is reasonable and he has a heart attack and dies. Did you kill him, because I think that a case for negligent manslaughter might be made?

I have just been helping an old lady who is being severely harassed by BG. She moved into a new sheltered flat, that had a BG electricity supply. She moved supplier as soon as possible because she had the same problem at her old property. They then sent a bill for £200 for 4 days of supply, both ends being “estimated readings”. It might just about be possible to use 1000 units in 4 days in a domestic (very small) premises, but the whole place would be unbelievably hot! She queried the bill by phone (1.5 hours), I did the same (2 hours), her daughter did (1.75 hours), I did again (2 hours) and although each person answering the phone apologised and said that the problem was corrected, she now has a debt collection agency letter! She was positively suicidal yesterday, she has not had a good night's sleep for weeks, and BG is uncontactable. I know because I made a serious complaint and was assured that I would get a return call within 48 hours four weeks ago. There has been no contact. I have to ring again tomorrow. I would love them to try court action because that would be in all the papers, and if the lady actually comes to any harm I am sure there is an excellent case as above. Her actual smart meter consumption including heating etc (no gas) is £8 per week. In the end, they will try to blame “computer error”. The only error that computers make is bad programs, like the Post Office.

I give the illustration because proper professional advice is very complex to do well. If one follows some of the comments above, the installation as a whole must be replaced, to protect the inspector! This is not electrical safety, it is actually serious incompetence. Nowadays some people see danger everywhere and it must be avoided at all costs. This is not the correct view of professionals. Imagine your Doctor had the same level of both fear and control. NO drinking, eating, smoking, enforced 2 hours of serious exercise per day, no carrying anything above 15kg, no running upstairs, no using sharp or powered tools, in fact, an end to life. Regular testing of every known bodily function just in case something turns up, and certificates galore. Are you sure that you are not doing this?

Great post and, good luck with the BG!

regards…

I think, with due respect to ALL… that if any of us went back, to inspect some works' completed, over the years'… we'd all find a fault, or two, SOMEWHERE! 

I have always been careful… wired 100's of houses' 40 plus years' industrial works, TP&N etc… Can't imagine how many CCU's, (TP&N included), that I've installed, (up to when this scheme started - none since), plus too many intake rooms' too. Nah, I ain't bragging… just an outline of what, (and… most of you have done too so, I'm NOTHING special… #in fact, I'm a bit of a bore#), we do.

I don't think I've ever worried about what I've installed BUT… I would take a guess that, somewhere down the road, I've made a boo-boo?

regards… 

P.S; I'd just like to add… I had a client, who used someone / non sparky, to do some works, that were POOR so he called me back, only a few years' ago… I couldn't get into the cupboard, beneath the stairs… the left hand side door wouldn't open, properly. I was reaching in to see what was stopping it opening. Once opened my eye's nearly popped OUT! The idiot had removed the cover on the Henly block! I doubt whether it would have killed me, (I've had shocks from TP&N boards, before BUT…), I'd take a stronger stance, against the ‘DIY’ers' than most sparks BUT, saying this… I have seen some dreadful ‘sparking’ along the way, too!

I removed a 30am 3036 fuse, from a commercial fuse-board…  suddenly, later, I got an almighty ShOcK! The GPO man had put it back into the CCU! I did have a word, or two, to say to him!! If you take a fuse out… don't leave it behind! DO NOT say, to me, “Test dead To Stay Alive” as I'd already done this… I just didn't reckon on a moron putting it BACK!

OK, last one!! I changed my neighbours PIR, for his alarm system, above his porch. I switched off the correct MCB, went off and bought a new PIR. Got back up and BANG! This nearly threw me off of the top of the porch, where I was standing and who would be to blame… ME! He'd switched it back on, because the alarm system was making an “annoying beep!!” 

So, the moral of my dopey stories? NEVER take for granted that what you've turned OFF, may remain OFF, always DOUBLE check!!! I think this will help someone out, in years' to come!! I do hope so!!

Tomgunn: 
I removed a 30am 3036 fuse, from a commercial fuse-board…  suddenly, later, I got an almighty ShOcK! The GPO man had put it back into the CCU! I did have a word, or two, to say to him!! If you take a fuse out… don't leave it behind! DO NOT say, to me, “Test dead To Stay Alive” as I'd already done this… I just didn't reckon on a moron putting it BACK!

It was made very clear to us before attempting the 2394/5 practicals that if you don't put the key to your lockoff padlock in your pocket, you fail.

Chris Pearson: 
 

perspicacious: 
If someone were to put a nail into the cable just under the surface, would that be safe or dangerous?

So, BOD, are you saying that any non-RCD protected circuit with cables in walls is a C2?

The newspapers are not exactly full of stories of people who have succumbed whilst putting nails in walls. Perhaps that is more by luck than judgement?

I suspect that most 40 - 50 year old houses would have had wooden floors and that cables would approach sockets from below so no risk from picture hooks there. Light switches are invariably in corners so you couldn't put anything but a very small picture there. And then if you tried to hit the line conductor, which is less than 2 mm across, with a nail of a similar size you would probably fail.

OK, I shouldn't post this BUT… here goes! 

Last year I took the rear of my property apart. Knocking down walls' and moving the W.C., etc. When I was removing the rear section I found… a rawl plug, and screw, through the centre, (oh dear), of the oval conduit, that had a 3 core,(and earth), PVC cable in it!!! It had been there for over 35 years'!!! The lighting system still worked BUT, I guess these things happen! Oooops!

regards… 

Better to put the fuse in your pocket, as we were taught to do by the foreman back in my apprentice days, and always test upon return to the job - some fitter might have found another fuse ‘that’ll fit' during your absence!

I have climbed up a ladder with the fuse in my back pocket as a tactile (*) reminder of proper isolation,  tested as dead and then removed and refitted a downstairs light fitting, only for the bulb to come on during re-connection.  Oddly the hall light was on the upstairs circuit…  You can allow for so much but the odd unforeseen will slip the net if you do enough. (and of course it was dead - that is why I was taking it all to bits anyway.)

Mike.

(*) For some reason as I wrote this I am reminded of the rowan Atkinson Eulogy for Tom Dick and Harry,  where the fusion of the senses is important.

whjohnson: 
Better to put the fuse in your pocket, as we were taught to do by the foreman back in my apprentice days, and always test upon return to the job - some fitter might have found another fuse ‘that’ll fit' during your absence!

I have asked my self whether it is sufficient in a domestic situation to remove the fuse from a switch fuse and put it in my pocket, or should the carrier be locked? My conclusion was that the householder is unlikely to have a spare BS88-3 fuse and if he did find one and put it in, knowing that I was working on the installation, the police and the coroner might ask some awkward questions.

“the police and the coroner might ask some awkward questions.” better still though if they were spared the asking of such questions Chris ?

 I have just carried out an inspection and test on a small two bedroomed  bungalow electrics of about the same age as the one highlighted in the newspaper report. Red and black conductors. A very good quality Crabtree on peak consumer unit with M.C.B.s, A very good off-peak Crabtree consumer unit as well, also with M.C.B.s. A very professional installation. Good P.M.E. earthing and bonding. (Although strictly speaking the water bond is unnecessary as the main water supply is in plastic pipe.

C2s. No R.C.D. protection at all.

Ring final has a broken C.P.C. and is not continuous.

Safe for continued use? Perhaps by a careful instructed person.

Overall condition? Unsatisfactory for continued use.

Oh, and it took me over half a day.

Z.