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Diversity and the resilience of circuit protection.

Following a report from a well respected Contributor here, I've been tasked with sorting out a few problems in a house.

One of them is a good lesson in diversity for cooking appliances.

A 45 amp circuit breaker, 6mm T+E cable, running in some patches of insulation, so a nominal 34 amps current carrying capacity. Probably a little more, as the insulation is not continuous, and is patchy in the void the cable runs through.

This cable supplies 6 appliances. Oven 3.6kW, hob 6.2kW,frying plate 2.4kW, large microwave 2.6kW, Steamer 5.6kW and a warming drawer at 0.7kW. A total nominal rating of 94kW.

With the current diversity guidance in the OSG, this install complies (forgetting about the overloaded cable) with the hob at 10 amps, and the rest at 30% of their rating, giving a total of 32 amps but it just doesn't feel right. To get a little better control, and fault reduction, I had intended to put 2 extra new supplies in, to divide them up, I've since put one supply in, but the second one is getting rather difficult to install without taking apart the kitchen.

The oven (16amp) was on a plugtop, with no signs of overheating, or reports of problems from the householder. A 20 amp DP switch, which supplied the steamer, microwave and drawer did show a little heat damage, though that could well have been a loose connection.

So it goes back to the pragmatic view, how much can a small family cook at the same time, and there we have the diversity. They say there are 2 hob rings they never use, the fryer is rarely used etc. So the typical load is less than 3kW once the oven has warmed up.

Even with the Christmas day dinner cooking, I cannot see much more than 30 amps being pulled for a short period, hence no overheating of the cable, and no tripping of the circuit.

The circuit breakers are now 32 amps.

I heard a whisper that guidance on Diversity is changing, has anyone else heard what may be changing? 

Parents
  • davezawadi (David Stone): 
     

    Why did you change the breaker to 32A? There was no sign of a problem, but you tried to decide that the circuit design is unsatisfactory. Why is it unsatisfactory? It works, shows no sign of damage, and is satisfactory to the customer. Did you tell him he needed more circuit(s), because if so I find your opinion to be both groundless and fraudulent? 

    I think you will have the minority view then. The cable is running in insulation, albeit not continuous. It was originally on a 45 Amp breaker. The cable is rated at 34 amps when downrated for its installation method.

    The amount of appliances connected is not a standard cooker load, and it is easily possible to exceed the 34 amp cable rating with only 3 of the appliances on. Yes, I realise diversity can be taken into consideration, and the load may not be on for long, but, really, would you leave 6 (largish) appliances on a  45 amp breaker with a cable capacity of 34 amps?

    If it was a new circuit, no-one would install such an arrangement, so , if inspected, and given a C2, then what would you do? (I didn't inspect it BTW) Tell the customer that there isn't much chance of a fire, but, don't turn everything on at once? Of course you wouldn't, you would suggest a better alternative would be to split the appliances up, so they aren't all on one circuit, and you would rate the circuit protection for the cable installation.

    As it happens, the cost wasn't much more to fit a new cable and the correct breakers, as it was only a small part of the repairs/replacements required, a consumer unit change was needed to give it RCD protection, along with a list of round 20 other C2's. even so, If I was doing the inspection myself, I would recommend the downrating of the cooker circuit CB, there is no way I could give a ‘Satisfactory’ knowing that cable wasn't big enough for the potential current.

     

Reply
  • davezawadi (David Stone): 
     

    Why did you change the breaker to 32A? There was no sign of a problem, but you tried to decide that the circuit design is unsatisfactory. Why is it unsatisfactory? It works, shows no sign of damage, and is satisfactory to the customer. Did you tell him he needed more circuit(s), because if so I find your opinion to be both groundless and fraudulent? 

    I think you will have the minority view then. The cable is running in insulation, albeit not continuous. It was originally on a 45 Amp breaker. The cable is rated at 34 amps when downrated for its installation method.

    The amount of appliances connected is not a standard cooker load, and it is easily possible to exceed the 34 amp cable rating with only 3 of the appliances on. Yes, I realise diversity can be taken into consideration, and the load may not be on for long, but, really, would you leave 6 (largish) appliances on a  45 amp breaker with a cable capacity of 34 amps?

    If it was a new circuit, no-one would install such an arrangement, so , if inspected, and given a C2, then what would you do? (I didn't inspect it BTW) Tell the customer that there isn't much chance of a fire, but, don't turn everything on at once? Of course you wouldn't, you would suggest a better alternative would be to split the appliances up, so they aren't all on one circuit, and you would rate the circuit protection for the cable installation.

    As it happens, the cost wasn't much more to fit a new cable and the correct breakers, as it was only a small part of the repairs/replacements required, a consumer unit change was needed to give it RCD protection, along with a list of round 20 other C2's. even so, If I was doing the inspection myself, I would recommend the downrating of the cooker circuit CB, there is no way I could give a ‘Satisfactory’ knowing that cable wasn't big enough for the potential current.

     

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