18th Edition training is it only for electricians?

Martine Dushime: 
 

Would it be possible to have a IET/Community comment or statement something official so that it can be shown to the management? 

I think the answer to that question would be “no, it wouldn't be possible”.

Martine Dushime: 
Thank you very much. That is exactly my case unfortunately I have been punished for this when addressing it?!

“punished” concerns me greatly. You will not get anything official here - like any forum, it is like a bunch of folk with a common interest discussing things down the pub.

If you do not want to wash your dirty linen in public, please feel free to contact me through the messaging service.

“I am writing to request assistance from a technical query related to 18th Edition Wiring regulation. I am told that this training is only for electricians and no other engineers. Is this correct?”

Any training is beneficial to anyone who wishes to enhance their learning. Additional knowledge is of value.

Z.

Martine Dushime: 
 

Hi, I get what you are saying The point here is not about getting its qualifications only instead is about the technical elements covered in it and how these are applied in your work in. Further, I understand that this then enables you to be better informed when carrying out LV works involved being and when you are from academics background or not had much exposer to similar type of works which then you apply to your duties. I understand that at times the 18th edition course providers might offers this training differently but I still value the importance of this training technical information and understanding it can provide.

Agreed.

Z.

This “qualifications” thing is greatly misunderstood. The 18th exam is very simple and to pass one needs to know very little of actual electrical installation work. It is completely useless as a basis for design. It is open book, and one needs to only know enough to find the right regulation in the index and to understand the answer the question asks. I have taught many people for this “update only” exam, assuming they know enough to pass, and although they nearly all did after following a fairly strict discussion of how to find the answers, in many cases the underlying knowledge was very poor. I had one candidate who had fairly serious dyslexia, but with some instruction passed. I think he was a perfectly satisfactory installer.

However, the problem is that all these people had probably passed other exams, but the level of real understanding of the regulations was poor. If it were a closed book exam, very few would have got a reasonable mark and probably failed. As most of them generally did domestic or small commercial work this probably does not matter too much, they have a standard set of designs and just repeat these, it is simple wiring and fixing of accessories.

The problem comes when they then try to inspect and test an unknown installation. If it does not match these design points, they are lost. You will see this from many of the questions here, and mostly a satisfactory answer may be found in the onsite guide, but they cannot identify it or have not got the OSG or the copy of BS7671. The big book is difficult to use if one does not have the underlying knowledge, but it is not expected to be a textbook. There are a few textbooks, but understanding these takes some effort, and they tend to become out of date fairly quickly. How do we solve this problem, it is certainly not via the 18th exam or anything like it.

[MD] “I am writing to request assistance from a technical query related to 18th Edition Wiring regulation. I am told that this training is only for electricians and no other engineers. Is this correct?”

 

[Z] Any training is beneficial to anyone who wishes to enhance their learning. Additional knowledge is of value.

Absolutely.

I am puzzled by the discussion. Many eminently sensible things have been said. Such as:

• Being an EE trained on HV installations does not mean in any way that you know much at all about LV installations. It is really different stuff.
• In particular, if you haven't actually read and used (in earnest) the wiring regs then you need to do so before even thinking about assessing LV installations.
• A book-learning course on the regs is a good idea (if only because it will get you to pay attention to the boring bits you would otherwise have skipped if learning on your own), but it will not qualify you to assess LV installations or to install LV kit reliably and conformably.

In Germany, you get to be an EE by completing a university course specifically in EE. Then you can join the VDE (the electrotechnical engineering professional society). That is the way to go for an HV EE. If you want to assess or install LV kit, though, you have to 

• take LV courses at a training institution, and
• apprentice yourself for 2000 hours to an authorised electrician, and
• pass your electrician exams.

Who would want it otherwise?

Given that, I can't see that the situation Martine described could arise in Germany.

And LV stuff for buildings is different from LV stuff for EVs is different from LV aircraft electrics. 

Martine Dushime: 
 

That's the reason I have approached this discussion, is there a way IET or Community here can assist in providing a written comment/statement that the 18h edition is not only for electricians? Any assistance would be appreciated so much.

Don’t Electrical Engineers have to comply with the Wiring Regulations? 

Or look at it the other way around - anyone who Designs, Installs or Inspects/Tests installations under BS 7671 could be seen as being an electrician (regardless of whatever other qualities they may also have).

   - Andy.

An electrician who qualified thirty years ago and has not completed any continuing professional development and updated their qualifications would not now be deemed competent.

So why would an Electrical Engineer who gained a degree thirty years ago and not completed any relevant CPD and job specific training be considered a competent Electrician?

Could the Electrical Engineer meet the requirements of the IET EAS to become a Qualified Supervisor  of an electrical contractor?

The answer to that last question is no, an Electrical Engineer cannot be a QS, unless they have the required job specific qualifications and experience. 

Hi Martin Keep an eye on this forum and you'll soon understand the importance of understanding the 18th edition regulations. Learning is a life long process and it is irrelevant to categorise the level as somehow less important if it is regarded as a lower level academically. There's many degree qualified engineers that have very little practical training or experience. Enjoy the course.