Consumer units and equipment outdoors

Alcomax: 
 

    

The market is the real world. What sells is produced in volume in order to make people price happy. 

I'm sure that we can have LONG discussions on that regards a number of factors:

• Electricians rates
• Why do I need an RCD?
• Why do I need a cpc for my lighting circuit?
• etc.

But we know that's a load of tosh.

No good taking all of that out on GTB … In this case, drilling a hole in an accessory enclosure to sort out the condensation, without taking other precautions, may well lead to another issue.

People want what's cheap … that's why they buy dodgy chargers from on-line “market places” or similar … doesn't stop them complaining when it all goes wrong. Similarly, “price point” doesn't always mean “complies with standards."

The MK Shield range of outdoor accessories boasted a 10 year guarantee, I have never had any problems with that excellent range. Now sadly discontinued.

Z.

What are forum users' experiences with outdoor wiring accessories in damp garages, open car ports, garden sheds, summer houses and greenhouses etc. Are the working parts like R.C.D.s and M.C.B.s corroding and not functioning correctly?

Z.

Zoomup: 
 

What are forum users' experiences with outdoor wiring accessories in damp garages, open car ports, garden sheds, summer houses and greenhouses etc. Are the working parts like R.C.D.s and M.C.B.s corroding and not functioning correctly?

Z.

I have seen that kind of thing in portacabins/containerised units used for construction site offices.

The issue I had with metalclad stuff in my outbuildings is severe corrosion of the boxes themselves after around 5 years or so. The moisture in the air here has a lot of salt in it, and of course a sectional concrete garage is not sealed and in winter you get occasional condensation in there. Standard plastic conduit backboxes and socket-outlets seem to do far better than metalclad, but being near the doors, the light switches I have in there are full outdoor plastic types because the wind has a tendency to drive the rain in when you open the doors. The other issue I had with metalclad, similar to the original tubes (see below) is that the copper conductors were also green. I don't get that with the plastic enclosures.

Standard indoor fluorescent tubes that were originally in there (by others) didn't last long either. Not only were the ballasts and enclosures badly corroded (could put a finger through in places), but the terminals were corroded, and the copper at the terminations was green.

Just want to add, never tried stainless - no point shelling out for it.

However, worth noting that outdoors in coastal areas, even stainless steel and galv corrodes quickly if you choose the wrong grade. A few years back, the sea front near me was refurbished, and stainless was chosen for the hand-rails down the steps to the beach. Within less than 2 months, they were rusting, and were quickly treated with marine-grade paint.

Aluminium and aluminium alloys just end up looking unsightly, even if painted (unless you use some really expensive paints, applied after the appropriate primer is used on the bare metal).

gkenyon: 

 

 

But we know that's a load of tosh.

No good taking all of that out on GTB … 

Now that is a load of tosh, even allowing for mitigation for the hour it was penned and perhaps a cloudy mind in which it was formed. But perhaps, more appropriately, it is reflective of the condescending and presumptuous tone of this [not so] new forum; a self styled fiefdom. I then recall a mavericks last post on the old forum and see why many, especially electricians, did not migrate to here.

Zoomup: 
What are forum users' experiences with outdoor wiring accessories in damp garages, open car ports, garden sheds, summer houses and greenhouses etc. Are the working parts like R.C.D.s and M.C.B.s corroding and not functioning correctly?

Most of my outbuildings are dry and 40 year old wiring and accessories (metalclad) are sound. I replaced a metal CU (Federal Electric) 4 years ago. It was situated 3 - 4 feet inside an open porch. The box had quite a lot of surface rust and the (BS 4293) RCBOs were dead. MK SRCDs in the conservatory failed some time ago, but it is falling apart and no longer waterproof.

Luminaires and (MK) outdoor switches have remained intact. I have replaced one ordinary round luminaire outdoors because the plastic had cracked, but the ones in the slightly damp outbuilding are fine.

I suspect that the coating of DBs makes a big difference - enamel should last much better than paint.

What has done badly is flood lights. The screws always seem to be rusty when a new lamp is required and the coating just doesn't last. PIRs don't seem to last either.

All of this is ½ mile from the sea.

GTB: 
A competant electrical installer would IMHO design the installation to prevent that happening, and something I was taught as a 16yr old apprentice, any outdoor enclosures entries should always as far as practicable enter from the bottom elevation as water cant run “Up” a cable or conduit.

What about light switches? Surely they will normally be at the bottom of a length of conduit.

Chris Pearson: 
 

All of this is ½ mile from the sea.

We're similar distance inland, but I think it depends on the wind in the area as here it brings in both sand and spray. A lot of our property, including garden, is quite exposed, luckily all rendered.

The area we are in is quite flat, back about 15-20 miles inland before the Pennines, and some of the effects are found that far back. It's quite obvious which of the inland areas are affected by the wind off the sea, because many of the trees and hedgerows find it very difficult to grow in any direction except pointing East (and even then, they are not really very tall).

Chris Pearson: 
 

GTB: 
A competant electrical installer would IMHO design the installation to prevent that happening, and something I was taught as a 16yr old apprentice, any outdoor enclosures entries should always as far as practicable enter from the bottom elevation as water cant run “Up” a cable or conduit.

What about light switches? Surely they will normally be at the bottom of a length of conduit.

Chris,

Being based in the West of Scotland I was basically told, try and not use conduit outdoors, simple reason water ingress into conduit/accessories plus condensation. If client insisted then conduit was a heavy gauge galvinised or stainless.

Conduit didnt go in top of switches they dropped either down just below the mid point of the switch enclosure or well below the bottom of the enclosure a T box was then added with a suitable drain plug put in the bottom entry and then a short piece of conduit run into the bottom of the enclosure or at a slight upward angle into the side, of course using an appropriate threaded entry/sealant or IP washers depending on the enclosure.

Of course designer needs to take into account all environmental conditions including flaura and fauna. Its of course good designers that spec higher IP rated equipment because our rainfall and the way the wind direction comes it may as well have a jet of water hitting it.

Just because the “Market” produces forever cheaper and cheaper and less quality materials to get the costs low doesnt mean thats what you have to use. I have seen countless enclosures full of water due to “Drain” holes put in them, drilling of the back of the enclosure for fixings rather than the isolated pre drilled fixing holes the manufacturer provided on the outside of the cover gasket, enclosures with fixings over tightened distorting its shape causing gasket not to be compressed correctly, gaskets damaged, missing, trapped on install that lets water in.

Unless the instructions say it can be done then any electrical contractor drilling any “Drain” hole on any one of my projects would be changing it at their own cost.

Yes, I have had RCBO's fail and contactor and relay coils fail due to corrosion on the internal wiring. Equipment today is not manufactured with the same safety factors and over engineering as we had in the past.

Of course its down to designer and installer what the select and install, what I was getting at was people doing their own thing about drilling holes in enclosures or altering them to suit, as I doubt manufacturer would replace in the future FOC if you tried to return it.

GTB