In regards to pedicure foot bath stations. We have a where we have twin socket outlets 800mm away from the foot bath itself. Now while the risk of splashes is minimal due to their positions at the back of the pedicure seat there is the likelihood of people plugging equipment in which could then be accidently dropped in the footbath itself. What are the regulations on this scenario as its very unclear?
is it something like this REM Natura Lux Pedispa (astonandfincher.co.uk) which is fixed in position?
Regards BS 7671, are these in the scope of Section 701 or Section 702? Probably not, in the same way that sinks aren't - doesn't fit the scope of either Section. The risks aren't the same as Section 701 (whole body wet, and potentially partly immersed)? I also thought about paddling pools and Section 702, but there is a statement 'Swimming pools within the scope of an equipment standard are outside the scope of these regulations.' and the general rules also state that assemblies containing electrical equipment are outside the scope of BS 7671 and should comply with appropriate standards, so I'd come down on the side of probably not 702 either.
So, we are looking at "general rules" regards splashing etc.
In terms of the risks associated with extension leads etc., those risks are present even with socket-outlets 2.5 m from the edge of Zone 1 in a Section 701 location, or if RCD protected in Zone 2 for Section 702 location, as you can always run a long extension lead. It seems to me that the risk assessment (and installation decisions) then need to me made in consultation with the organisation operating it, as required by CDM Regulations - the operational risk is that organisation's responsibility, and they need to be involved in the design risk assessment as well as the operational risk assessment.
Hi there,
In regards to potentially partly immersed, it’s likely that a customer’s feet will be immersed, it’s difficult to establish if it's 701 or 702.... grey area.
In regards to your comment about the risks being present at even 2.5m away I agree, but in this instance I think the risk is greater as the probability of an employee using this socket outlet for equipment that is then used on a client who has their feet fully immersed. It’s a difficult one as I don’t know the nature of the equipment they use (now or in the future) and although I would like to presume it is suitability designed for these applications I can’t make that assumption. The risk of electric shock is present as if the employee accidently drops the piece of equipment in the foot bath while a client has their feet fully immersed well….
Well just wondering if anyone else has had this predicament before and if so how they overcame it.
it’s difficult to establish if it's 701 or 702.... grey area.
Or neither? As Graham said, it's neither a bath or shower or a pool. More like a handwashing basin or kitchen sink - immersed hands if anything is probably a higher risk than immersed feet - as the arms connect across the chest a shock between hands will route more current through the heart than the same shock between feet. There's no special requirements for handwashing basins outside of bath/shower rooms, nor kitchen sinks. The closest equivalent I can think of are those sinks they have in hairdressers for washing customer's hair - it's quite usual to see sockets (e.g. for hair dryers or clippers) quite close to them. At some point the problem falls to the common sense (or documented work procedures) of the people using it rather than an electrical installation regulation issue.
- Andy.
Yes get your point with hairdressers but you never have an instance where peoples body parts are immersed while having equipment on you. You think about it hair dryers, straighteners etc are all after the event, unlike what im talking about here.
Unfortunately common sense is not that common any more so as designers we want to minimise the risk as much as possible as in todays blame culture should something happen I’m sure the design will be brought into question.
In regards to potentially partly immersed, it’s likely that a customer’s feet will be immersed, it’s difficult to establish if it's 701 or 702.... grey area.
In Section 701, the risk is that the whole body is usually wet, and there may be splashing water ... not the case here, only feet, or for the operative conducting any pedicure activities, their hands? So, perhaps like a sink?
Which leaves only 702, but it's not a fountain nor a swimming pool. It could be a paddling pool, but this type of product is not within scope for the reasons I described.
Hence, not really a grey area - it's "out of scope".
It’s a difficult one as I don’t know the nature of the equipment they use (now or in the future) and although I would like to presume it is suitability designed for these applications I can’t make that assumption.
But if you can't ascertain whether it meets a product standard, that has to be reported as a departure, or listed FI (depending on what you are doing)?
In any case, the risk assessment is, as I said, in the hands of the dutyholder. Surely this is covered adequately under EAWR and PUWER?
Yes get your point with hairdressers but you never have an instance where peoples body parts are immersed while having equipment on you. You think about it hair dryers, straighteners etc are all after the event, unlike what im talking about here.
They remain plugged in, hanging just below (or below and slightly to one side) of the sink whilst hair is being washed with a movable nozzle (I will refrain from using the term "shower head" here to avoid confusion).
I still think "general rules" is most appropriate here, along with robust risk assessment (that is required under CDM if you are carrying out the installation, or making modifications to existing installation).
Are you specifying the equipment that will be used, or just fitting the sockets ?
From BS7671 as others have said, it is non-issue.
It may be that rechargeable battery nail polishers may be safer than 230V ones, and the sockets are better used only for the charging cradles of such kit. But that can only be an advisory to the salon owner that great care should be taken with plug in mains equipment near the bath. Amusingly my local 'barbers' has recently gone down this route, and all the clippers and low power kit is now battery driven, leaving just the hair dryer as mains driven
I cannot see how the position of the sockets is anything to worry about. What gets plugged into them, maybe worth a recommendation. I presume the owners have requested them, and they ought to have an idea what for...
Mike..
But that can only be an advisory to the salon owner that great care should be taken with plug in mains equipment near the bath
Blimey, whatever next?
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