Scope of Part P (extra-low voltage)

'Interesting' / scary examples of what is non-notifiable

• Adding a 240V light & extractor above a shower as long as it is over 2250mm from finished floor and above the height of the shower head
• Replacing or repairing an electric shower installation
• Adding a whole ring to the end of a radial including 'upgrading' the breaker to 32A (would "technically" be OK if radial was 4mm2). That's the extension sorted.
• Ebay LED lights with incendiary capacitors and China Export logos

I know quite a few people who would consider themselves competent, but will be weary of having a shower at their house :-)

'Interesting' / scary examples of what is non-notifiable

• Adding a 240V light & extractor above a shower as long as it is over 2250mm from finished floor and above the height of the shower head
• Replacing or repairing an electric shower installation
• Adding a whole ring to the end of a radial including 'upgrading' the breaker to 32A (would "technically" be OK if radial was 4mm2). That's the extension sorted.
• Ebay LED lights with incendiary capacitors and China Export logos

I know quite a few people who would consider themselves competent, but will be weary of having a shower at their house :-)

So what is it exactly that you wish to see change?

It might pay you to look up the latest fatality stats caused by electric shock if you really think there's a problem.

Fair play, I think most householders would get someone suitably qualified to do the tasks listed anyway (except the last of course).

I was perhaps under the impression that things were more locked down than they are that's all. I'm pleasantly surprised really as I prefer freedoms.

Not sure why it is scary-  you are statistically much more likely to be given food poisoning at someone else's house than be electrocuted, and nearly an order of magnitude more likely to die from it.

(around 2.4 million estimated UK cases of foodborne illness occur each year)  or if you prefer only the numbers at the end of the table, a  hundred or so die each year. Of those that need medical treatment the approx breakdown is as follows.

(source PDF page 26 of this food standards agency report )

Compare with electrocution from this link 

deaths where the underlying cause was exposure to electric current; by sex and five year age group, England, 2001 to 2017
The ONS...

Of course only those where the W location code ends in '0' occurred at home and may be influenced by part P. And most are at places of trade or service (codes end in '5') or industrial/construction ( codes end in '6').
Domestic electrocutions are less than ten a year and predominantly male. Tellingly the figures from 2001-2004  (pre part P and all that) are not much different, despite both part P and the adoption of RCDs in all sorts of places where there were none before.

So, if we scrapped part P and put all the saved money into food hygiene education, would we as a society be more or less safe ?

Mike

PS perhaps we should also count electrical fires, but the stats are harder to asses, and actually by far the most are caused by cooking, again.

I presume that everyone now realises that notification is a scam, along with the "competent persons" schemes, and the micky-mouse exam which a moderately competent in English teenager could probably pass, with very little electrical knowledge, and a good deal of the trade (that actually attempts it) gets 75% or less. About 10% or so actually fail! Does this imply any form of competence?

Mike mentions fires, but actually getting a sensible statistic is very difficult indeed. Again from Grenfell, an ex fireman with no proper qualifications set himself up as a Fire Safety Inspector, and passed the grossly defective building as safe. The Fire officer in charge of the fire fighting did not attempt to evacuate the building despite the huge rate at which the fire advanced because a fire brigade document said that this was not to be attempted if a "stay in place policy" was active, ignoring the fact that the document did not properly consider a fire in more than one flat!

The causes of domestic fires investigated by officers who receive two weeks of training are unlikely to be much better than any of the above, and they do not differentiate between fixed wiring, DNO equipment or appliances. Qualified fire Engineers who carry out forensic inspections are expensive and unlikely in any fire where the losses are reasonable for the insurer to pay. The statistics are very little use except to say that cooking is much more dangerous than electricity and that there are very few deaths from electric shock in the home, for any reason. As some 60 million people use electricity and electrical equipment day-in day-out, it is probablly the safest thing that anyone does, particularly including going to bed. You are many times more likely to die falling down stairs than from electric shock. The electrical industry probably kills more people falling or driving than the electricity that seems to cause such unjustified worry.

It is likely that eating is one of the most dangerous that most of us do, I wonder how many of the cooks among you have a "Food Hygene Certificate", although the standard of that is pretty low too?

Indeed. Just how many people have been electrocuted or had a fire started by the 48 Volt B.T. telephone system in most homes? The same system that allows anyone to plug in a long D.I.Y. extension lead.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351045725339?hash=item51bbf4ac9b:g:0GYAAOxycD9TRpzh

More dangerous is a 13 Amp 140 Volt mains socket 3m from a bath tub or shower tray as permitted by the regs.

Extension lead, phone charger, falls into bath, death.

415.1.2

Historical stats.

www2.theiet.org/.../messageview.cfm

Z.