OLEV Installation Auditor problems

Humm some of the codes do seem a bit far fetched.

I think the dismissal of the SPDs wasn't quite right though (unless the EV install was done a long time ago) - I agree that the regs aren't retrospective, but the EV install is new, so there should be SPDs on that bit at least, or a documented risk assessment showing that they're not required (the value of the installation opt-out isn't going to work given the cost of the charge point alone, never mind the EV); without an SPD or RA the new EV install can't be said to comply with BS 7671 (which presumably was the requirement and what the cert claimed it did).

   - Andy.

How about a departure based upon the impracticality of installing SPD provision when a recently fitted but nearly full consumer unit is present? Surely SPD provision cannot be forced upon an unwilling adopter against both their will and their wallet?

How about a departure based upon the impracticality of installing SPD provision when a recently fitted but nearly full consumer unit is present? Surely SPD provision cannot be forced upon an unwilling adopter against both their will and their wallet?

I doubt it's that impractical - the SPD could always be put in a separate enclosure after all. Pretty similar situation to having to add 30mA RCD protection when adding a socket to an old installation - usually there's a way if there's a will.

A departure would be debatable - any departure should not reduce the level of safety compared with what compliance would achieve - and as as the fundamental purpose of the regs is to 'provide for the safety of persons, livestock and property' (my emphasis) (131.1) it's hard to see that leaving out an SPD where a risk assessment would say it's required would do that.

As for cost - that's always a stumbling point. I suppose that in general a customer could ask for something that's below BS 7671 standard (building reg etc permitting), but I suspect that in this case the government grant makes things more complicated as I guess it's a condition of the grant that the work complies with the current (or some specified) edition of BS 7671.

   - Andy.

AJJewsbury said:

the value of the installation opt-out isn't going to work given the cost of the charge point alone, never mind the EV

The single dwelling unit exemption is rather subjective. Who decides whether or not protection is justified? Presumably the customer.

The risk assessment in 443.5 is, IMHO, not fit for purpose and it will be interesting to see what next week brings. What I want to know is: (1) the chance of a significant overvoltage over say, 5 years; (2) the chance of it leading to damage; (3) the cost of protection; and I can work out (4) the value of the equipment to be protected myself. To justify protection, (1) x (2) x (4) needs to be higher than (3).

Even if (3) is very low (especially if a new CU is being fitted), the cost is not necessarily justified.

Since the requirement for spds was written by a manufacturer (kirsty from surge protective devices) as part of the jpel committee, as is the requirement for afdd (Paul from Hager) I'd like to see some of there scientific data to support there blanket introduction. Or ideed their risk assessment for inclusion in the regs.

I also wonder which other wiring regulations were written and introduced by manufacturers.

Point being why are manufacturers involved in writing regulation? Vested interests.

I would not have altered the S.W.A. fixings in any way. (End of video)  That was totally unnecessary.

521.10.202.

Z.

A&R Electrical get a mention in that video, it is said that they failed an audit.

They are local to me and casual acquaintances, as they are electricians I chat to whilst waiting at the counter in our local electrical wholesaler.

Whilst working in customers homes I have opened up consumer units they have installed and personally seen their general standard of work, as well as some of the YouTube videos that one of them does.

Having met them and having seen their work in real life as well on YouTube I cannot say I have heard or seen anything that would be of concern to me and I am very surprised to hear they failed an audit.

Jon Steward said:

Since the requirement for spds was written by a manufacturer (kirsty from surge protective devices) as part of the jpel committee

This is definitely NOT the case. The requirements are not written by an individual, or a single organisation.

Jon Steward said:

as is the requirement for afdd (Paul from Hager)

Similarly.

Requirements align with those in international standards HD 60364 and IEC 60364.
International requirements are agreed by consensus of the whole committee responsible.

Any particular national requirements are agreed by consensus in our national committee (JPEL/64).

So, I guess there's some sort of "conspiracy theory" circling the interwebby thing?

I totally agree with what Graham Kenyon above has said about SPDs and AFDDs. The observations about the origins of SPDs and AFDDs is utter nonsense.

Whilst I accept that the introduction of SPD and AFDD is not driven solely by "those with a vested interest" such as manufacturers, the manufacturers are not doing anything to promote the benefits of having these devices to the general public,  they once again seem to be relying on electricians to do the promotion for them, with electricians being left in the position of having to enforce any requirements to have them.

This leaves the electricians being accused of "up selling" and trying to create work and of trying to sell people things they "don't really need".

In reality I am very regularly telling people about the benefits of having a circuit protective conductor for their lighting circuit and RCD protection, as well as upgrading from wooden fuse box with rewirable fuses. By the end of next week i could be telling them upgrading will cost over a thousand pounds and many really do not have the means to pay and those that do are reluctant. 

Regards OZEV, they have copies of quotes, don't they reject those that don't include any required upgrades of the existing installation?