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463.1.3 Functional Switching (Control).

Could it be argued that 463.1.3 requires a separate switch for items like an oven, hob, refrigerator or washing machine etc. where the appliance has no means of external isolation/control except those on itself? Or are functional controls on the appliances adequate and sufficient?

Z.

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  • I don't see it like that at all Z. It is simply saying that a power-using item must be able to be switched off. Appliances that are plugged in obviously have this, and a fridge built-in does not. It is not saying anything about an emergency (as you quote) or even isolation for cleaning or maintenance. Functional switching is simply turning something on or off. I rather hope the grid switch turning off every kitchen item has died the death,  If you have a fire surely you want to turn off all the electricity so the CU or whatever is perfectly adequate as it provides 2 pole isolation. Then you can get the hose out or whatever. It is very wise to have a fire blanket in the kitchen, but that is not a BS7671 scope, it belongs in the BR.

  • Here's a thing. With the hob, oven and dish washer all supplied by the same circuit, with just one switch, and say the dishwasher become faulty and trips off the circuit R.C.D. how can it be isolated on its own. It can not, so many circuits are lost as the consumer unit is a split load type. Much inconvenience....

    www.procertssoftware.com/.../

    Z.

  • You are not listening.

    Yes, it would be desirable to have local isolation, and no-one has stated it isnt, but there is no point continuing to make the argument that it is required when it clearly isnt required.

    It isnt a requirement of BS7671.

    The CB/RCD will provide both functional switching and isolation.

    As stated above, earlier, it is a Contract issue between the Houseowner and the Supplier of the service.

    Tell them to pay more, and they will get local switching provided, as, I'm sure, the price does not allow for it at the moment.

  • www.which.co.uk/.../

  • Please see my very logical reasoning history above. And yes I am listening. But I prefer to listen to and take on board logical safe and regulation based designs.

    Telling "them" to pay more is not involved. The new installation is already sub-standard.

    Z.

  • There is no smoke without fire!

    ETA: please don't misunderstand me - I have at the back of my mind Grenfell Tower and the potential (though rare) seriousness of appliance fires.

  • Ah yes. A switch which is on the wall above, but behind the machine. Mind the flames when you try to reach it!

    Yes, that's what I don't like about the approach of "FCU above the unit" approach, although there's nothing wrong with a 20 A switch off the RFC ... unless you subscribe to the fact that it's not a BS 1363-series accessory so it's prohibited on an RFC (then again, same would go for the BS EN 60898 or BS EN 61009 OCPD in the CU, so if you subscribe to that theory, RFCs aren't permitted)

    Also two fuses one after the other ... unnecessary ohmic energy wastage

  • What flames, I only mentioned smoke.

    Ever seen a kitchen when a washing machine or tumble-dryer has fire-gutted it? I don't think "just to the side" (or even "in adjacent cupboard") means of switching off or isolation would actually work in those cases, having spoken to people who this has happened to ...

  • The potential damage and fire size is dependant upon the time it takes to discover the incident and then its containment. Undiscovered fire risk is a concern for people that use appliances overnight.

    Smoke and heat alarms are useful as an  to alert to fire.

    Local isolation is essential. A local isolator "suitably placed for ready operation" is invaluable for each and every appliance.

    132.15.201. These can prevent or REMOVE danger.

    Z.

  • I have just come up with a money saving solution. I will do away with all isolator switches in new installations for cookers, immersion heaters, storage heaters, fridges, freezers and showers etc. The users can just use the integral appliance controls OR the installation miniature circuit breakers for operation. What a great idea.

    Z.

  • news.sky.com/.../grenfell-tower-inquiry-faulty-wiring-in-fridge-freezer-started-fire-says-expert-11565956

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