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Can I add RCBOs to a dual RCD board under a TN-S system?

Hi I'm an not an electrician, but a Level 2 Electrical Installations student with not alot of electrical knowledge. A relative is getting her kitchen re-wired and two consumer unit changes will be required. I have two problems

There are two consumer units. The first one has 2 double pole 63A/30mA RCDs protecting 5 MCB's each with the smoke alarm on one of the MCBs. The second consumer unit is smaller with just one 80A/30mA RCCB protecting 4 MCBs

A different electrician from the one doing the job performed the EICR on his report and pointed out with a C3 code that the 'smoke detectors are not a separate rcbo'. and 'No surge protection has been provided'.

So, would we be able to add just a single RCBO for the smoke detector and put it into the dual RCD board or would changing the dual RCD CU to a 10 rcbos suffice? Also, do I have to buy surge protectors for both consumer units or just the larger one, cause the smaller CU is only protecting the kitchen lighting and ground/first floor lighting because I thought surge protectors would only apply for socket circuits.

Sorry for the long description, but this is an urgent matter and any help will be appreciated. Images of both large and small CU are below

Parents
  • I thought that AMD1 or even the vanilla 18th Ed would have required SPDs unless you did the risk assessment calculation to show they weren't needed, but the lack of them on an existing installation isn't a major safety worry. If needed they apply to all kinds circuits (or ones supplying new work at least), not just socket circuits. Adding them to an existing CU (especially one without any facility for connecting MCBs upstream of the RCCBs) is going to be tricky and likely not supported by the manufacturer. (didn't MK give up making CUs anyway?) A simpler option might be to add an SPD in the tails before both CUs - e.g. something like https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC2SPD.html (that's presuming a simple type 2 is all you need - if you have other incoming services, PV, lightning protection or an overhead supply the situation can get somewhat messier).

    I agree - nothing wrong with smoke alarms sharing another well used circuit (usually lighting) - preferable in my book. In any event there would be no point in adding an RCBO downstream of one of the existing RCCBs - you'd just be increasing the number of possible points/causes of failure. If you did go for a separate RCBO you'd need it connected before the RCCBs but those simple dual RCD boards don't provide a bus-bar before the RCCBs so you're stuck without modifying the layout yourself which again probably isn't supported by the manufacturer's type-testing (although a few manufacturers do sell kits to do that kind of thing).

    I'm more surprised your electrician hasn't spotted the exposed basic insulation by the Henley block. 

    BTW - if your earthing facility is provided by a local DNO it's more like likely to be deemed to have 'PME conditions apply' - i.e.  you should treat it as if it were PME if that's the worst case, even if the supply is presented as TN-S, since DNO modifications in the street (existing or in the future) can effectively turn a TN-S supply into a TN-C-S PME one without you knowing.

       - Andy.

Reply
  • I thought that AMD1 or even the vanilla 18th Ed would have required SPDs unless you did the risk assessment calculation to show they weren't needed, but the lack of them on an existing installation isn't a major safety worry. If needed they apply to all kinds circuits (or ones supplying new work at least), not just socket circuits. Adding them to an existing CU (especially one without any facility for connecting MCBs upstream of the RCCBs) is going to be tricky and likely not supported by the manufacturer. (didn't MK give up making CUs anyway?) A simpler option might be to add an SPD in the tails before both CUs - e.g. something like https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC2SPD.html (that's presuming a simple type 2 is all you need - if you have other incoming services, PV, lightning protection or an overhead supply the situation can get somewhat messier).

    I agree - nothing wrong with smoke alarms sharing another well used circuit (usually lighting) - preferable in my book. In any event there would be no point in adding an RCBO downstream of one of the existing RCCBs - you'd just be increasing the number of possible points/causes of failure. If you did go for a separate RCBO you'd need it connected before the RCCBs but those simple dual RCD boards don't provide a bus-bar before the RCCBs so you're stuck without modifying the layout yourself which again probably isn't supported by the manufacturer's type-testing (although a few manufacturers do sell kits to do that kind of thing).

    I'm more surprised your electrician hasn't spotted the exposed basic insulation by the Henley block. 

    BTW - if your earthing facility is provided by a local DNO it's more like likely to be deemed to have 'PME conditions apply' - i.e.  you should treat it as if it were PME if that's the worst case, even if the supply is presented as TN-S, since DNO modifications in the street (existing or in the future) can effectively turn a TN-S supply into a TN-C-S PME one without you knowing.

       - Andy.

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