Defibrillator installation

The manufacturer's instructions would be my first port of call - there may well be differences in requirements between different makes/models.  In general though, I gather they need power a) to keep the internal battery charged, and b) for the outdoor ones power for a small heater to guard against condensation and the like; so double insulation or even SELV/PELV seems quite feasible.

I'd doubt that the external cabinet would count as an exposed-conductive-part - to have a realistic chance of being made live by a fault it would have to contain mains wiring with only basic insulation over it - and as the inside of the cabinet would have to be accessible to get the AED out, I doubt that would be the case. As long as there's a bit of care with cables passing through holes (keep the cable sheath intact, no sharp edges etc) and of course no part of the enclosure is directly used to house exposed wiring as if it were a Class 1 enclosure, I don't think there's a worry there.

   - Andy.

Two weeks ago I went to Builth Wells and did an Emergency First Aid at Work + F course, the plus F Is forestry so it included chainsaw and high pressure hose injuries, my digital training certificate arrived by email yesterday.

We CPR, it was also demonstrated using a training defibrillator, they are battery operated the cabinet power supply is for a heater to keep them warm.

One of the guys on the course has bought his own defibrillator, £900 with a £200 grant from a Welsh charity, because his wife has a heart condition, he takes it to work with him under the seat in his van as there’s no one at home during the day and takes it indoors when he gets home to keep it warm. As far as I know they have a sealed battery and do not rely on being permanently on charge.

There was only a few a PowerPoint slides on the training course, mainly photos I didn’t really want to see, the chainsaw accident photos were enough to put you off using a chainsaw for life, the high pressure hose accident photos weren’t at all disturbing, one was just a break in the skin caused by a high pressure het of hydraulic fluid from a leaking hose, two days later the guy had a finger amputated and the veins stripped out of his arm by the surgeon chasing the hydraulic fluid.

The advice was if you have your skin broken by a high pressure hose or jet, be it oil, water air or paint go straight to an A&E at a hospital with operating facilities, not your local Minor Injuries Unit.

I have just bought a new box for my First Aid kit which is currently in a carrier bag under the passenger seat and one of the jobs for the weekend is to check the expiry dates and replenish with additional dressings having been introduced to and shown how to use Israeli Bandages, clotting agents and tourniquets.

A defibrillator is not on the shopping list, it’s probably a bit much to have one under the seat of my own van.

As always Andy you’re making a lot of sense. My main concern was that there is a specific requirement for these AEDs which is niggling at the back of my mind, it might just be because my head is remembering specialist medical locations containing defibs used directly on the heart through an open chest, which if I remember correctly deems the location a class 1 medical location set apart from a boring class 2 medical locations where our hearts are not operated on and you just get a plaster for your booboo. Something like that at least. Been years since I delved into that when I was but a boy in a classroom.

My main concern was that there is a specific requirement for these AEDs which is niggling at the back of my mind, it might just be because my head is remembering specialist medical locations containing defibs used directly on the heart through an open chest, which if I remember correctly deems the location a class 1 medical location set apart from a boring class 2 medical locations where our hearts are not operated on and you just get a plaster for your booboo. Something like that at least.

Others here will know the medical requirements better than me, but to my mind the cabinet is only where the the AED will be stored - where it is ultimately applied to a patient will almost certainly be elsewhere - so I don't see this falling under under section 710.

   - Andy.

There is one of these things on the corner of the local church hall. Problem is that Mrs P couldn't get there and back within 3 minutes. The intention is that whoever needs it grabs it and takes it to where it is needed. The fact that it is a medical device does not mean that it has to be used in a medical location or treated as one.

@Chris Pearson  

I would hope Mrs P will be doing CPR rather than going to the church hall.

 IronFreely 

These defibrillators won’t start a stopped heart, they look for a heart beat that is irregular and if need be try and get the rhythm back. They won’t shock if there isn’t a irregular heart beat, so they won’t shock if there’s a regular heart beat or if there isn’t a heartbeat at all.

If the defibrillator advises “No shock continue CPR” just hope there’s at least two people to keep thumping away, because it’s hard work and they could be at it for over a quarter of a hour.

The key advice is to follow the makers info carefully - if you can get a copy in advance or post a link to an on-line datasheet here we can always offer you more specific and confusing advice..

As others have said, expect not a lot more complexity than wiring in an outside light, but the charger will almost certainly  be double insulated. much like the old lights in phone boxes that were always earth free.

Mike.

I have installed a couple of the AED units in phone boxes. The manufactures instructions say the the unit needs to be TT earth. The locked box for these was plastic with a 24V power supply for the keypad, a fan, a heater pad and the solenoid to open the box. The problem with phone boxes is they are double insulated. I did contact the manufacturers to find out why TT but got no response. 

The defibrillator itself contain a long life battery with an expiry date and is not rechargeable. I forget the chemistry involved but it was not one of the common types. 

From the training course I went on to use a defibrillator I was lead to believe it was to start a dead heart. It was made clear that performing CPR was the most urgent need. If the person has had a heart attack requiring a defibrillator they are already dead so you can do no harm by performing CPR. The prognosis was not very good  even with timely CPR and a defibrillator but it was much better than doing nothing.

Sparkingchip said:

could be at it for over a quarter of a hour

That's if you are lucky and the ambulances aren't all queuing up outside A&E.

If you are in asystole - no electrical activity, your chances are grim outside hospital, and not brilliant inside. So I agree, these public defibrillators are for the treatment of ventricular fibrillation and I marvel at the ability of them to make the diagnosis. If I remember my first-aid course correctly, and things have not changed, if the patient is an adult you phone for help first because the most likely treatable cause is VF. If the patient is a child, you crack on with CPR.

And of course, a shock isn't going to help if there is no blood to go round and round. That may be due to a chainsaw, in which case there might be a clue in the form of lots of red sticky stuff, but if you are a bloke over 65, your abdominal aorta may have burst so the bleeding is internal. The moral of the story there is go for your screening test at 65. And, incidentally, I hope that by then you will have sent in your bowel cancer screening test.

Prostate next, chaps!!!

I was told by a medic that a defib stops your heart so it starts on its own good unconfused rhythm. Rather than it starts a stopped heart.