Agree that a licence to practice is desirable. 
All of the guys I have on my current experienced worker cohort did not complete their formal apprenticeship qualifications but stayed in the industry nonetheless. While apprentices they were awarded £9000 to see them through. That was tax payers money which not put to best effect. Now they have to dig deep in their own pockets. Whilst I have sympathy, it serves as a solid warning to those younger apprentices who are currently enjoying a free passage through their training. Lads are earning 1500 euros a week on one large project in Dublin, it won’t take them too long to see payback. 
The scheme was developed by industry stakeholders, Certsure, NAPIT, ECA, ECS, ECS, TESP, NET, JIB, Unite and City and Guilds. It’s relatively new so it’s here to stay for a while. Lads and lassies (hopefully) will have to find funding from somewhere not least of all because my daily rate ain’t cheap! 

Any of those stakeholders a non-profit organisation with a genuine concern for the industry? 

Just because there is a chance for the lads to earn 1500€ a week, doesn't mean that money is there to be taken from their pockets. From that 1500€, I'm guessing they need vans, tools, insurance, digs, meals. This is the same for everyone! As much as the tradesman world think all sparkles are raking it in, there must be a good percentage who can't afford to prove themselves again to an organisation who has come in, deemed their existing qualifications worthless and set new boundaries.

lyledunn said:

Now they have to dig deep in their own pockets. Whilst I have sympathy, it serves as a solid warning to those younger apprentices who are currently enjoying a free passage through their training. Lads are earning 1500 euros a week on one large project in Dublin, it won’t take them too long to see payback. 

Hang on ... we are also talking about some people who already did apprenticeships, and saw them through, but their older qualifications or apprenticeship no longer being considered "acceptable" somehow?

Graham,

I stood in many classes over the years and warned the guys to keep their cards up to date whether employed or self-employed. It was clear that the JIB  card was effectively becoming a crucial must-have for the installation operative irrespective of employment status. I warned those who had older qualifications to make application for the card before the scheme set out different criteria. Many failed to heed the warnings and so they pay the penalty. Tough!

Whilst I'd agree to a point, it doesn't make it right.

In addition, now we have AM2E, I wonder how long it will be until that those who can't demonstrate they ever had AM2, have to get AM2E before they can renew their card?

So what do folk get for an amount of money that would buy about 8 weeks course fees at a university?

It seems to me that the discussion is not over the technical merit of some refresher course, but the financial value of it

M

a LtP will never happen in England due to the issues you raise.  Electricians able to work would fall by 60/70% and industry would come to a standstill.

It’s £580 for the NICEIC man to come visit you for a half day. For the 2346, the average candidate requires at least the equivalent of 2 full days of on site appraisal plus my time writing up observation reports, ongoing assistance, consultation and direction/feedback to candidates, records of professional discussions, detailed scrutiny of the candidates portfolio and justification of my interim decisions as well as a comprehensive summative statement. 
The fees for sign up to City and Guilds, internal verification, consultation with EQA, quality assurance meetings, record keeping……at £3K maybe not too bad compared with NICEIC.

You rightly ask do we need all this, well, it was those industry stakeholders that I mentioned in an earlier post that created the standard. Maybe some would like me to hold a mirror to their mouth and if there is the slightest sign of misting, congratulations you are a sparky! 

mapj1 said:

It seems to me that the discussion is not over the technical merit of some refresher cours

I have not commented on that, but ...

clearly we should be glad that university fees and similar  are not set by Niciec standards ;-) For an intensive  course like physics, £9000 gets you a year of 3 lectures a day for 3 ten week terms,  practical labs, examinations, seminars and tutorials.... divide that down to see what to expect for £500 or £1000

Mike

Edit to correct 3 years to 1 year.

Actually, £28.5k Mike + books which are likely to cost another £2k. Most of it will be remote, and in my view now pretty useless. Labs etc are reduced to an absolute minimum. It is another con, have you actually tried a few questions of a probing nature on most new graduates? It is a comedy act!

Actually, £28.5k Mike + books which are likely to cost another £2k. Most of it will be remote, and in my view now pretty useless. Labs etc are reduced to an absolute minimum. It is another con, have you actually tried a few questions of a probing nature on most new graduates? It is a comedy act!

Ah well that is a different question.  Over the years as I become a grumpy old *** in his 50s, I am slowly coming to suspect that none of this so called education and training  is anything like as useful as hands on experience and could probably be ditched. I also have some fairly similar pithy thoughts for a lot of legislation and regulation/ standardisation as well, but I think on this forum I'll best stay quiet to avoid causing offence.

Mike.