Yesterday I went to sort out a “boiling hot water tap” that hasn’t worked since Christmas, having reassembled the tap which had fell apart and fixing a water leak, I discovered that no water actually flowed through it.

I disconnected the pipe work and found the water flowed as far as the heater, so tried blowing down the pipework using my mouth, this did not clear the blockage but did dislodge some blue plastic swarm presumably from someone cutting an underground MDPE blue plastic water pipe somewhere out in the ground with a hacksaw or the like.

Having failed to dislodge the blockage by blowing down the pipe using my mouth I went out to the van and got my Makita 18 volt cordless tyre inflator, then selected a suitable nozzle and blew air into the water heater at 35 psi, as that was what the inflator was set at being the pressure of the front tyres on my van and did not seem excessive.

There was a blast of air, water and some blue plastic swarf flew into the ladies Pyrex measuring jug I had borrowed, then I reassembled the pipework and it all worked perfectly.

I passed comment to the lady “They don’t teach you how to do that at college”, I know that experience is hard to measure and quantify, but sometimes experience actually trumps training and qualifications.

Suitably qualified (I purposely did not use the term competent) for me is NVQ3, 2360 or equivalent and 2391 or equivalent.  I would actually like to see it go further and include at least 5 years working in the area someone is QSing in and at least two of those years acting as a supervisor to other electricians.

If any Engineer wants to operate as a QS then they need to train to act as one if not already qualified to the standard of what EAS currently requires.  It is not discriminatory, no Engineer is excluded from the training required to verify their skills in this area.

a LtP will never happen in England due to the issues you raise.  Electricians able to work would fall by 60/70% and industry would come to a standstill.

Sparkingchip said:

They don’t teach you how to do that at college”, I know that experience is hard to measure and quantify, but sometimes experience actually trumps training and qualifications.

Indeed, that’s why it’s called the Experienced Worker Qualification. Really only experience is required.

It’s £580 for the NICEIC man to come visit you for a half day. For the 2346, the average candidate requires at least the equivalent of 2 full days of on site appraisal plus my time writing up observation reports, ongoing assistance, consultation and direction/feedback to candidates, records of professional discussions, detailed scrutiny of the candidates portfolio and justification of my interim decisions as well as a comprehensive summative statement. 
The fees for sign up to City and Guilds, internal verification, consultation with EQA, quality assurance meetings, record keeping……at £3K maybe not too bad compared with NICEIC.

You rightly ask do we need all this, well, it was those industry stakeholders that I mentioned in an earlier post that created the standard. Maybe some would like me to hold a mirror to their mouth and if there is the slightest sign of misting, congratulations you are a sparky! 

Some years ago there was two IET Wiring Regulations Forum meet-ups in a hotel in Chelmsford, rather than sitting typing on an Ipad at home around twenty of us actually had a meal and a drink at the hotel and some of us stayed overnight.

I remember a discussion with a couple of guys about getting an NVQ as an experienced worker to get JIB card, the comments were “If it’s all that is standing you and getting a well paid job, then just get on and do it”.

However the lads I talk to in the electrical wholesalers don’t see NAPIT or NICEIC membership as a golden ticket, if they have to pay for doing the experienced worker qualification, the scheme membership, incidental expenses, the loss of earnings whilst qualifying and being assessed, as well as possibly having to buy their own test gear they are looking at a financial out lay in excess of six thousand quid, when actually they are earning decent money subbing, doing commercial, industrial and agricultural work, as well as doing non-notifiable domestic work all legitimately.

Spending time and a considerable amount of money on joining a domestic competence scheme just doesn’t make much sense, particularly when you can do the work anyway by notifying it through a mate or a firm you sub to; or just fly under the radar doing work for people who aren’t bothered about the work being notified.

Spending six thousand pounds and time required to get registered then maybe only notifying a dozen jobs a year really doesn’t make sense at all.

Bear in mind that there has been the Covid lockdowns and some of the notifications I have made were for work in bathrooms in Wales that is not notifiable in England.

I get jobs that are non-notifiable because I am registered on a competent person scheme, but in reality the number of notifications I actually make don’t justify the trouble and expense of scheme membership.

There is more than enough non-notifiable work to get by legitimately without being a scheme member, but as I said I get more non-notifiable work because I am registered. 

My notifications are probably costing me around seventy pounds each!

When part P was introduced there was far more notifiable work in England as all work in kitchens and bathrooms was notifiable, so I made a lot more notifications which made scheme membership far more sensible from a financial point of view, so called “deregulation” actually made scheme membership far less attractive and expensive.

mapj1 said:

It seems to me that the discussion is not over the technical merit of some refresher cours

I have not commented on that, but ...

clearly we should be glad that university fees and similar  are not set by Niciec standards ;-) For an intensive  course like physics, £9000 gets you a year of 3 lectures a day for 3 ten week terms,  practical labs, examinations, seminars and tutorials.... divide that down to see what to expect for £500 or £1000

Mike

Edit to correct 3 years to 1 year.