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Cause of RCD not tripping with test switch

I have a strange fault where an RCD operates as expected when tested on the bench but when installed the test switch does not cause it to trip.

I have asked this on another forum but not really managed to get an explanation of what could cause it and why.

I have 3 RCD's giving the same fault, they trip satisfactorily when tested with an MFT when installed but test switch does not cause a trip with the downstream MCB's on or off.

My thoughts so far.

Unlikely to be the RCD as swapping has no impact.

MFT test creates fault current to earth, test switch creates fault current from live to neutral prior to sensor coil, how much current flows??

Insulation tests on installation gives about 1.04m ohm live conductors to earth at 250V on two circuits, 0.84 for installation at 240v this gives a leakage current of 285mA. Why doesn't this trigger the RCD, or do I have the decimal point in the wrong place?

The above is leakage current at 240V, but problem exists with CB's of, therefore presumably very limited voltage across circuit and current flowing.

Others have said its likely to be a neural earth fault. I can see the logic that the line is disconnected by the CB's and therefore it must be related to the neutral plus I could see that if there was a fault current in the neutral side it would balance the test switch current, preventing a trip. But what would drive the current as the potential difference between Neutral and earth is close to zero, and why would testing with a meter give a different result.

I thought about the RCD being bypassed in someway but I couldn't see any unexpected electrical connections.

I have considered DC leakage current, but would you get DC leakage with everything switched off? Maybe batteries feeding back through the charging circuit? There are led lights,  one TV and quite a few gadgets plugged in, but very limited compared to most, no car chargers or computers.

The house was rewired about 20 years ago with black / red PVC cable that looks reasonable. There is quite a bit of dodgy DIY, with fixed lights on flex, plugged in in to sockets, lots of extension leads and adaptors; unplugging these will be  a good starting point.

One strange thing I did find was that the house has a TT earth but when the main earth cable is disconnected at both ends I get an earth impedance of 0.3 ohms from the cable. Presumably a hidden connection to steel frame of the semi detached Cornish house, maybe with next door on TNC-S. Water pipes are bonded but isolated on entry to the house.

As some background this is on an old Wylex WSTM 100/2, 100mA type S rcd.

I realise I am going to have to disconnect circuits to break the problem down but would very much appreciate any thoughts on possible causes and theory behind the cause. I have a horrible feeling it's gong to come down to cumulative effect of multiple issues which are going to take considerable time and money to sort out. I won't be able gaurantee making 1 or 2 fixes will solve the problem and the customer has a genuine lack of money.

Any guidance on possible faults to look for and why they would cause the symptoms would be much appreciated, I am not a fan of just trying things without understanding the background science.

On a slightly different tack, I am considering failure of test button test as a C2 that needs resolving, am I over coding it and would a C3 be more appropriate? I am certainly not that comfortable with it as the owner has no way of knowing if the RCD is working and presumably there is one or more faults in the house.

Parents
  • some things to try

    1) RCD in the board - is there 240V between N and L on the inbound side. When it is on is there 240V between L and N outbound Does this vanish on both L and N when the RCD is in the off position.

    2) Does the RCD test button really put a resistor between outbound and inbound L-N crossed - I know that it should, but does it - a general purpose DMM of the £20 kind with an ohms range will do. With the RCD out and on the table put one meter lead on N-out the other on L in ,  confirm the meter is on ohms and press the button. If still reads infinite  try the other way, L-out and N-in. Before that  if it is a new meter and you are not confident with the meter on ohms read a few other things first, filament lamps, heaters pencil lead etc just to get in the swing of the right readings and not measuring wet fingers by mistake.

    10K would imbalance by 23mA, 1k by 230mA so expect something between 4 and 7K on a 30ma and 1 and 2K on a 100mA one.

    (some test resistors fail open circuit, but the rest of the RCD stays OK.)

    3) with RCD out, wire it between a plug and socket, as if an extension lead. Now test it...

    If it really is failure of just the test button, and everything else is up to spec, but be really, really sure about that, perhaps your customer can always test them with something like one of these

    plug in tester with 'trip my RCD' button until funds permit replacement.

    Of course if it is not that then come back - it is interesting.

    Mike.

  • Could the electronics in the time delayed R.C.D.s have been damaged by insulation resistance testing or a high Voltage lightning strike nearby? So that is why the electronic part does not work with the test button.

    Z.

  • I have just had a look inside an R.C.D. that is of the same make and design as your Wylex S type unit. The cover is missing but I am sure that it is the same. It contains a small circuit board that contains several diodes, a couple of small capacitors, a resistor and a transistor. Two of the diode like devices are marked ITT 2PY 51. They are very small and I needed a magnifying glass to read them. The transistor is marked GE2N4992 and will be the most delicate and vulnerable component. The resistor is marked yellow, violet, brown gold.

    I have installed these R.C.D.s myself and they are of very good quality. Mine boasts that it was made in Austria. In fact I have one installed here at home and it trips reliably on test button push.

    A small printed label shows that the test button circuit is connected to the bottom (load) terminals 1 and N. Also is says that the incoming connections can be top OR bottom.

    The diagram is very simplistic but seems to show that the test button circuit is independent of the fault sensing circuit.

    The manufacturer is F&G.

    Z.

Reply
  • I have just had a look inside an R.C.D. that is of the same make and design as your Wylex S type unit. The cover is missing but I am sure that it is the same. It contains a small circuit board that contains several diodes, a couple of small capacitors, a resistor and a transistor. Two of the diode like devices are marked ITT 2PY 51. They are very small and I needed a magnifying glass to read them. The transistor is marked GE2N4992 and will be the most delicate and vulnerable component. The resistor is marked yellow, violet, brown gold.

    I have installed these R.C.D.s myself and they are of very good quality. Mine boasts that it was made in Austria. In fact I have one installed here at home and it trips reliably on test button push.

    A small printed label shows that the test button circuit is connected to the bottom (load) terminals 1 and N. Also is says that the incoming connections can be top OR bottom.

    The diagram is very simplistic but seems to show that the test button circuit is independent of the fault sensing circuit.

    The manufacturer is F&G.

    Z.

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