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Prof indem insurance versus public liabillity

Something I have not fully understood for a long time.

Let`s see if someone can enlighten me . A simple practising Sparks from the Norf of our country (England) or should that be from the Norf of our nation? (Britain or UK).

Anyway.

I set up as a self employed electrical contractor for say 10 years.

I decide to get insurance cover. Let`s leave employees or subcontractors aside for now.

So I get cover and renew every year for each of those 10 years.

After those 10 years I stop trading and cease all cover premiums. That`s it.

My public liability insurance covers me for hurting someone or damaging their property.

So any hurt or damage that is caused by something I do or omit to do during that 10 year period is covered.

Now my questions :-

Q1/   in year 11 or onwards something happens and someone is hurt or damage is caused by some of my actions during the 10 year insured period the is that covered by the insurance I had in place at the time? ref public liability insurance.

Q2/   ditto situation for advice I gave during the insured period and someone suffers damage as a result but again from year 11 onwards? (Periodic/ EICR would be a good example).

What is the answer in each case - is it yes or no?

Q3/   If yes then is the answer yes to both questions?

Q4/   If no then is the answer no to both questions?

Q5/   If the answers to Q3/ and/or Q4 are not identical then why is that?.

To my simple mind I would have thought that each of those insurances should cover what I did or advised when I did it or advised it and cover that subsequent liability for as long as I might be held to account for it by any law.

I consider that this discussion is very much "Wiring and the Regulations" related to all of us.

Parents
  • As above, PI is the one with the long hangover - it may be a decade before the storm that makes the new building collapse due to the architects slip up with the design. The builders only followed the designers plans. I appreciate the electrical equivalent is unlikely.

    Unless there  is a a specific 'and for xx years thereafter'  clause (and for retiring consultants, there is, if you ask for it, but it costs more) the insurance normally stops in the last year you paid for. This is so called 'run off' cover. Arguably not needed beyond some point, but what is sensible for that cut-off?


    Also is it the legal entity Ebee Ltd who is insured or Mr Ebee, as it makes a difference how things are set up- when I say something is safe  on behalf of my employer, the disgruntled customer will go after them first, and to a degree, it is up to them to verify my competence before trusting it- the employer then has to decide to come after me if they feel it is appropriate, not the end customer directly. 

    And if the Ltd company has been wound up then there the liability trail largely goes cold. (and it seems a great many small builders go out of business over one badly done job, but the folk who worked for them eventually resurface elsewhere, - it seems quite often to regroup and to repeat the errors.)
    In principle someone could start a private action against the individual at any time, but unless it is really serious this raises the difficulty bar such that it is a lot less likely, and only worth it if things are so bad that a successful claim is almost guaranteed. (and there may be associated criminal investigations)

    Add to this your normal limited terms and conditions of trading - 'work is guaranteed free of defects of material or workmanship ' but for how long, and eventually the statute of limitations. This last is quite short for such unprofessional oversights like forgetting to notify building control, (non indictable) but liability is potentially never ending if your design decision happens to kill someone and it could clearly have been foreseen at the time.

    If your policy is still running, then inform your insurer that you intend to  cease trading. They will attach an endorsement to your policy stating that cover will not be provided for any service or work provided after that date.  At the next renewal the insurer will offer "run off" renewal terms and may ask you to complete a proposal form as in the past, so as to establish what work you undertook from the last renewal to the date your company closed.

    And google 'run off cover'. I am not an expert.

    Mike.

Reply
  • As above, PI is the one with the long hangover - it may be a decade before the storm that makes the new building collapse due to the architects slip up with the design. The builders only followed the designers plans. I appreciate the electrical equivalent is unlikely.

    Unless there  is a a specific 'and for xx years thereafter'  clause (and for retiring consultants, there is, if you ask for it, but it costs more) the insurance normally stops in the last year you paid for. This is so called 'run off' cover. Arguably not needed beyond some point, but what is sensible for that cut-off?


    Also is it the legal entity Ebee Ltd who is insured or Mr Ebee, as it makes a difference how things are set up- when I say something is safe  on behalf of my employer, the disgruntled customer will go after them first, and to a degree, it is up to them to verify my competence before trusting it- the employer then has to decide to come after me if they feel it is appropriate, not the end customer directly. 

    And if the Ltd company has been wound up then there the liability trail largely goes cold. (and it seems a great many small builders go out of business over one badly done job, but the folk who worked for them eventually resurface elsewhere, - it seems quite often to regroup and to repeat the errors.)
    In principle someone could start a private action against the individual at any time, but unless it is really serious this raises the difficulty bar such that it is a lot less likely, and only worth it if things are so bad that a successful claim is almost guaranteed. (and there may be associated criminal investigations)

    Add to this your normal limited terms and conditions of trading - 'work is guaranteed free of defects of material or workmanship ' but for how long, and eventually the statute of limitations. This last is quite short for such unprofessional oversights like forgetting to notify building control, (non indictable) but liability is potentially never ending if your design decision happens to kill someone and it could clearly have been foreseen at the time.

    If your policy is still running, then inform your insurer that you intend to  cease trading. They will attach an endorsement to your policy stating that cover will not be provided for any service or work provided after that date.  At the next renewal the insurer will offer "run off" renewal terms and may ask you to complete a proposal form as in the past, so as to establish what work you undertook from the last renewal to the date your company closed.

    And google 'run off cover'. I am not an expert.

    Mike.

Children
  • And google 'run off cover'. I am not an expert.

    I also believe that's what you'd need ... just to make sure someone doesn't come after your home or other assets.

    It's entirely possible (but as has been said, probably remote chance) that someone might be advised to proceed against a professionally registered engineer if the company that employed them has ceased trading - this has happened already to a Chartered Surveyor (Merett v Babb).

    But I also am not an expert.