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Low Speed and High speed Motor problem

HI All

My turn to need some help........

I have a three phase, 11.5KW motor complete with contactors etc in the MCC. (It was 8.5KW three phase motor and its been upgraded to an 11.5KW three phase motor with some upgrade of wiring, contactors etc - all works carried out by myself - so I cant blame anyone else - from design calcuations and cable sizes to specification of the contactors etc - installed by myself too, so I cant blame anyone else for this either. 

This motor has Three contactors, as is usual with star/delta, and, as usual, with two contactors working together (! &3 in this case with the shorting out bit on top of contactor 3) and one contactor working alone. (Contactor 2). 

This is wired - I'm very sure - in a typical star/delta set up but with no time clock. It is - I know - different to star/delta and is a high speed/low speed motor control.

Both Contactor 1 and contactor 2 have overload protection as this motor can be run in Low Speed or in High speed and left in that mode for indefinite periods of time. 

I'm virtually certain that the links in the motor should be removed all together and I have done so. 

The controls are not apparently trend for the contactor control circuit, but Trend does the flow switches, dampers, filters etc and in auto must play a part in start stop functions and high speed/low speed functions. 

I'm fairly certain that the door switch high and low speed do not use the trend controls - its in hand effectively. (Four options on the Door switch selector  - High speed, Low speed, Off, auto). 

Any way

- This motor functions in High speed (Contactors 1 and 3 in a typical star/delta set up) probably proving that I have connected up the motor winding correctly. I'm certain I have.

Motor Direction is obviously correct too. 

- This motor does not do anything in Low speed function - even though contactor 2 engages - when the low speed door switch function is selected - and voltage passes through contactor 2, to the motor (the motor receives power from the MCC, through the windings and - inevitably back to the MCC at the bottom of contactor 1.) The motor does zero. I feel the circuit is incomplete.

Now - if I were to only wire this motor in (Delta?) winding - slow speed - I'd install the links into the motor -3 of - I feel these links are missing - in the MCC 

In high speed - (star?) winding - the motor links are provided by contactor 3 which is linked out at the top of contactor 3 - when contactor 1 pulls in - contactor 3 pulls in and a circuit is formed. 

I hope I have my star delta descriptions correct? I get them mixed up.

I'm missing something very fundamental and elementary here - I know I am - please do inbox me if you think you can help as I feel this forum might prove difficult to diagnose a something stupid on my part.

I'm near Woking, Surrey and the job is in Epping Forest, London and is a swimming pools main AHU air handling Supply motor.

I very seldom, these days, get to do star/delta motors and clearly, don't understand high speed/low speed motors. 

Kind Regards

Tatty

Parents
  • Any chance of a circuit of what you have wired ?  - photo of a back of a (large ! ) envelope sketch of the 3 or 6 motor windings  and associated contacts would be fine, and also the make or model of the motor. And, ideally, a photo of the winding ends inside the motor wiring box.

    Unless the high low is more of a torque setting than a speed (and on a pool pump torque changing may be what you need) then Star-delta is not the right sort of motor, S-D does not change the speed as such.

    For true dual speed the  only kind of motor is  a specially wound one that can be altered to behave in two ways, to change say between say 2 and 4 poles per revolution,  (or 4 and 8) and that involves rather more winding ends in the box  than a normal one.

    A normal star-delta always energises the poles at the same rate, it just changes the voltages reaching those windings from 230 during spin up to 400V during run, a true dual speed is something else as the no of poles per rotation is also changed.. A vari-pole motor is not Star-delta, though it looks casually like it and the fast slow switching has much in common.

    Even before VFDs were available those were unusual and mainly turned up only in washing machines and at lower powers than this. Nowadays a simple 3 winding motor and  a VFD is more common.

    Rare, but it still may be.
    The clue is that there are twice as many ends of windings in the box (12 ends not 6 but still 6 terminals) so that pairs of poles may be energized together in the slow speed as one double width pseudo pole and 
    slewed between phases in the fast mode. This wiring illustration may explain better. Note there are two approaches, one gives a more or less constant torque at both speeds, and the other a more or less constant power  (high torque at low speed), as when the poles are excited as pairs, they may be // or series. If it is not just  S-D then closer than normal attention to the maker's data may be needed.

    Mike.

Reply
  • Any chance of a circuit of what you have wired ?  - photo of a back of a (large ! ) envelope sketch of the 3 or 6 motor windings  and associated contacts would be fine, and also the make or model of the motor. And, ideally, a photo of the winding ends inside the motor wiring box.

    Unless the high low is more of a torque setting than a speed (and on a pool pump torque changing may be what you need) then Star-delta is not the right sort of motor, S-D does not change the speed as such.

    For true dual speed the  only kind of motor is  a specially wound one that can be altered to behave in two ways, to change say between say 2 and 4 poles per revolution,  (or 4 and 8) and that involves rather more winding ends in the box  than a normal one.

    A normal star-delta always energises the poles at the same rate, it just changes the voltages reaching those windings from 230 during spin up to 400V during run, a true dual speed is something else as the no of poles per rotation is also changed.. A vari-pole motor is not Star-delta, though it looks casually like it and the fast slow switching has much in common.

    Even before VFDs were available those were unusual and mainly turned up only in washing machines and at lower powers than this. Nowadays a simple 3 winding motor and  a VFD is more common.

    Rare, but it still may be.
    The clue is that there are twice as many ends of windings in the box (12 ends not 6 but still 6 terminals) so that pairs of poles may be energized together in the slow speed as one double width pseudo pole and 
    slewed between phases in the fast mode. This wiring illustration may explain better. Note there are two approaches, one gives a more or less constant torque at both speeds, and the other a more or less constant power  (high torque at low speed), as when the poles are excited as pairs, they may be // or series. If it is not just  S-D then closer than normal attention to the maker's data may be needed.

    Mike.

Children
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