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Insurance requirement for 3phase competence for a single phase building

I've just taken over the running of a community building which is single phase and is no more complex than a large 4-bedroomed bungalow in terms of space, load and number of socket outlets. The electrical test electrician currently conducting the test is qualified for single phase only. The new insurance company specifies the tester must be qualified for 3-phase. While they have a right to do this, is it reasonable and based upon a real need? Can I contest it and on what technical basis?

Parents
  • I'd have to - in the best of ways -  object to a small part of mapj1s reply -   "having a reasonably recent test and inspection qualification" bit............ I'm sure lots of us normal electricians got their test and inspection qualifications decades ago. I do maybe a dozen EICRs a year if I'm lucky (Commercial) so I could prove experience, as I keep those records, but any employed electrician (especially) who does not hold the records from years past would struggle, I imagine to prove recent up to date competency. 

    I recon you've encapsulated the best reply in your first sentence - I'd ask the insurers what they mean and get clarification - as this is an insurer driven specification. 

    I suspect a lot of qualified electricians never get to work on three phase systems though, and don't have experience in three phase. Perhaps this is the basis of the insurers concern? 

    The electrician " currently conducting the test" - what ever test that is - perhaps an EICR? - I'd suggest would need Basic, industry recognized qualifications, test and inspection qualifications and insurance at the least. Maybe the electrician is a domstic installer and holds a "short cut" course qualification only?? (If he's only qualified for single phase) 

    An NICEIC Approved contractor is the usual default of insurance companies, and it saves the responsible person for running the community building from doing any further checks and having to decide whether someone, or sometimes an organisation/company is deemed competent, qualified and experienced. 

    The idea behind an NICEIC approved contractor is that those checks are already done by the NICEIC and by being a part of the organisation the NICEIC are willing to endorse that company/person as having all of the qualifications, experience, insurance etc etc to carry out electrical work. 

Reply
  • I'd have to - in the best of ways -  object to a small part of mapj1s reply -   "having a reasonably recent test and inspection qualification" bit............ I'm sure lots of us normal electricians got their test and inspection qualifications decades ago. I do maybe a dozen EICRs a year if I'm lucky (Commercial) so I could prove experience, as I keep those records, but any employed electrician (especially) who does not hold the records from years past would struggle, I imagine to prove recent up to date competency. 

    I recon you've encapsulated the best reply in your first sentence - I'd ask the insurers what they mean and get clarification - as this is an insurer driven specification. 

    I suspect a lot of qualified electricians never get to work on three phase systems though, and don't have experience in three phase. Perhaps this is the basis of the insurers concern? 

    The electrician " currently conducting the test" - what ever test that is - perhaps an EICR? - I'd suggest would need Basic, industry recognized qualifications, test and inspection qualifications and insurance at the least. Maybe the electrician is a domstic installer and holds a "short cut" course qualification only?? (If he's only qualified for single phase) 

    An NICEIC Approved contractor is the usual default of insurance companies, and it saves the responsible person for running the community building from doing any further checks and having to decide whether someone, or sometimes an organisation/company is deemed competent, qualified and experienced. 

    The idea behind an NICEIC approved contractor is that those checks are already done by the NICEIC and by being a part of the organisation the NICEIC are willing to endorse that company/person as having all of the qualifications, experience, insurance etc etc to carry out electrical work. 

Children
  • I suspect a lot of qualified electricians never get to work on three phase systems though, and don't have experience in three phase. Perhaps this is the basis of the insurers concern? 

    So what is so very difficult about 3-phase?

    Safe isolation - 10 tests instead of 3. (Ditto IR testing.) Then you are good to go.

    Can anybody explain please which bit of inspection is different for 3-phases - sight, touch, smell, etc. I do accept, however, that the bits of kit in industrial, as opposed to light commercial are different, so most sparks might want to steer clear. That assumes of course that the owners of the sort of factories which Greg Wallace & team visit would accept any old sparks.

    And then testing. Most of it is L-N or L-E so apart from the fact that there are 3 times the number of conductors, what's different?

    I see no reason why a "domestic" sparks with his head screwed on right should not be capable of inspecting and testing (or even installing) a 3-phase system at 100 A per phase.

  • Once an electrician has had some experience on three phase systems, there's nothing difficult about three phase systems......its way more intimidating though than a single phase system............and i have met a few sparks who were "born and bought up" on single phase domestic systems and look at three phase systems as outside of their experience. They can do it, they just don't know that they can do it. 

    I'm unclear about my college training days - if we ever had any three phase works to do in college? (20 years ago) Certainly I did at work. I've always had three phase systems to work on as I seldom do houses; which also sometimes have three phases. 

    In my latest brush with college - I'm in the process of doing the AM2 and the AM2E - the "final qualifying test" - I think is a practical test in a phone booth type test station - I do believe its just on a single phase DB to prove competency. I'm sure if this was a three phase DB a lot more sparks carrying out this final test would be challenged a lot more than they are. 

    I'm sure you can be a very good spark and never touch three phase systems.

    Three phase systems do have their intricacies:

    An electrical item of plant with no neutral............

    If you think about a large multi story office block for example - I've almost never carried out a Ze for example in this environment  - the LV switch room and all the additional strange switching going on from BS88s to MCCB to air circuit breakers - determining the type of supply, determining where the MET is and if its adequately sized, larger fault currents,  etc etc. It can be rather intimidating

    A three phase incommer in a community hall though would be relatively easy.