Pardon? The NICEIC (and others) only assess the QS, is he the guy doing the EICR? This would be very unusual! So this NIC thing is complete nonsense for more than one man businesses. As they say "Houston, we have a problem". Simply put, you are being misled.

Yes well that is the other gaping hole in the net, the chap or chapess running the business has convinced the local area man that they are a good egg, but the one on the doorstep with a toolbox could be almost any trained gorilla first employed by that business any time prior to 8 o'clock this morning. Of course it may also be someone with decades of experience and/or a list of certificates and commendations as long as your arm, but unless you expect folk get in the habit of wearing their stripes and medals out to the job, the customer is none the wiser.

And, most importantly the incredibly low accident rate does not justify a heavily regulated approach. It may sound crap, and there are  few example of some truly terrible work out there, but for most cases, it is more or less working.

And as one who has a few qualifications from the last century, I am sensitive to the idea that in many ways the success of the last job or three may be more of a qualification than the yellowing and dusty certificates.

Mike

I absolutely agree - I'm certainly not misled at all............I just said that it's the NICEIC Approved contractor (whether company or sole trader)  is the usual default of the insurance company. Look for that approval with your electrician, and the insurance company (who is the only body I'm trying to keep happy here) will likely be happy.

All of their criteria are likely to be for filled.

I think we all know that the customer is (not likely?) not going to get the QS...... or necessarily (But hopefully) get a good job. Its the same as for everyone, whomever their governing body or qualifications. 

tattyinengland said:

I suspect a lot of qualified electricians never get to work on three phase systems though, and don't have experience in three phase. Perhaps this is the basis of the insurers concern? 

So what is so very difficult about 3-phase?

Safe isolation - 10 tests instead of 3. (Ditto IR testing.) Then you are good to go.

Can anybody explain please which bit of inspection is different for 3-phases - sight, touch, smell, etc. I do accept, however, that the bits of kit in industrial, as opposed to light commercial are different, so most sparks might want to steer clear. That assumes of course that the owners of the sort of factories which Greg Wallace & team visit would accept any old sparks.

And then testing. Most of it is L-N or L-E so apart from the fact that there are 3 times the number of conductors, what's different?

I see no reason why a "domestic" sparks with his head screwed on right should not be capable of inspecting and testing (or even installing) a 3-phase system at 100 A per phase.

Once an electrician has had some experience on three phase systems, there's nothing difficult about three phase systems......its way more intimidating though than a single phase system............and i have met a few sparks who were "born and bought up" on single phase domestic systems and look at three phase systems as outside of their experience. They can do it, they just don't know that they can do it. 

I'm unclear about my college training days - if we ever had any three phase works to do in college? (20 years ago) Certainly I did at work. I've always had three phase systems to work on as I seldom do houses; which also sometimes have three phases. 

In my latest brush with college - I'm in the process of doing the AM2 and the AM2E - the "final qualifying test" - I think is a practical test in a phone booth type test station - I do believe its just on a single phase DB to prove competency. I'm sure if this was a three phase DB a lot more sparks carrying out this final test would be challenged a lot more than they are. 

I'm sure you can be a very good spark and never touch three phase systems.

Three phase systems do have their intricacies:

An electrical item of plant with no neutral............

If you think about a large multi story office block for example - I've almost never carried out a Ze for example in this environment  - the LV switch room and all the additional strange switching going on from BS88s to MCCB to air circuit breakers - determining the type of supply, determining where the MET is and if its adequately sized, larger fault currents,  etc etc. It can be rather intimidating

A three phase incommer in a community hall though would be relatively easy.

It is not unreasonable for stakeholders, such as the insurance company in this case, to have an input into the demand for competence. Regulation 16 of the EAW Regs might be focused firmly at duty holders but I can imagine that if injury occurred due to lack of competence, a court might reasonably extend that focus to others. A mere mention of lack of clarity from stakeholders could open the gate to a civil action. Setting aside the threats of legal consequences, the regulation below should also sit easy in any stakeholder's moral compass. 

Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury

16.  No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work