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AFDDs - when do they work?

I'm struggling to see the benefots of fitting AFDD's.

I've searched the web, but cannot find any compelling evidence that they actually help in safety.

 The Proffesional Journals all say they are a good thing, but with little content to show the data used to show they make a difference.

As we know, many fires are not caused by arcs, the build up of fluff in a tumble dryer is a typical example.

When I did my Social Housing work, I found many burnt out shower switches, along with washing machine sockets and occasional cooker switches that were totally burnt around the terminals, yet, in many cases would still work until the switch finally fell apart. Clearly some of these switches had been arcing, then had fused the cable to the terminal, others showed black terminals with only a small contact area, thus heating the terminals and causing the 'fishy' smell, which was quite typical.

Is there any evidence that AFDD's would stop these failures?

What about internal appliance faults?

Wasnt Grenfell started in a fridge? If so, would AFDD detect that fault?

And, what are appliance manufacturers doing to make their goods safer? From what I see, there are still thin tin plate terminals on cookers,and poor, loose spade terminals inside firdges and other appliances.They are made to be as cheap as possible, and it shows when you tighten up a terminal, and it bends the back plate as it is so thin.   

  • I couldn't agree more.

    Note that the manufacturers are part of jpel

  • Indeed.

    BEAMA GAMBEICA JPLE BS7671.

    It leaves a certain whiff in the air doesn't it.

    As Smutts said to Churchill during a WW2 meeting on the existence or not of German Radar. "The evidence may not be conclusive, but a jury would convict.'.

  • Follow the money.......

  • BEAMA GAMBEICA JPLE BS7671.

    It leaves a certain whiff in the air doesn't it.

    I'm astonished at that conclusion. The front of BS 7671 (page 13 of the brown book) lists the representatives and the organisations they represent. The numbers don't look skewed?

  • It's not solely down to the number of parties representing each 'side' Graham, it's the amount of clout, financial or otherwise that each one brings to the table. You might have an equal number of giants on one side of the table and an equal number of dwarfs on the other, but guess who wins when it comes to doing the heavy lifting and the decision in which to travel on any issue is made.

    Edited for clarity - I hope.

  • It's not solely down to the the number of parties representing each 'side Graham, it's the amount of clout, financial or  otherwise that each one brings to the table.

    I'm not quite sure what you are saying here?

    You might have an equal number giants on one side of the table and an equal number of dwarfs on the other

    I'm intrigued ... could you expand on that?

  • Simon, I was actually referring to the longevity of these things, and how frequently they can operate correctly over their life cycle with failing completely. We know that some brands of RCBO 'fall over' after only one or two operations.

    For the purpose of clarity and avoidance of doubt, I was not asking how many times you can reset the thing when you know there is a persistent fault within a short period of time.

  • Graham,

    As an august member of JPLE, surely I don't have to paint you a picture?

    I am just as confounded as the rest as to what or who actually drove the decision to mandate the fitting of AFDDs and why.

  • Interesting that Hager, who have just launched their single-mod AFDD, don't give any statistical data as to why these products make an installation safer. AFDD's are supposedly all about improving safety, and if I was pushing an expensive product I would be singing from the treetops about how many fires this product would stop. Yet nothing, not even in the FAQ's is there anything about how many fires these will stop 

    hager.com/.../afdd

  • In response to the above I am preparing a video of the full tests, with metal electrodes. Everyone will probably find it interesting.