Re: One month to go until BS 7671:2018+A1:2020 is withdrawn….act now!

Hi Simon

Good question! I'll ask one of our Tech Regs team to pop in here and clarify 

Yes, it has been brought up here before. The lawmakers, or whoever collated the wording should have written- 'must comply with the Wiring regulations that are current at the time of the Inspection.'

Others have argued that the current edition (2nd) is still the 18th edition, so should be followed. What about in 3 years time when the 19th comes in?

Well, i clicked your link Simon and there are prospective changes afoot. there is a box with "latest version"

"

Changes to legislation:

There are outstanding changes not yet made by the legislation.gov.uk editorial team to The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020. Any changes that have already been made by the team appear in the content and are referenced with annotations.

This has been discussed at length previously.

Concerning the provisional amendment mentioned below by OylmpusMons, this related to R.8, which is concerned with certain NHS premises. The name of the organizations is being changed in another statute so it must be amended here. That is not ambulatory legislation.

My interpretation of the Regulations is that an inspection should be carried out i.a.w. the current version of BS 7671 i.e. using the methods specified in Chapter 65. So for example, RCDs are tested at 1 x IΔn at the moment. The installation must comply with BS 7671: 2018 (+0), but that does not mean that it cannot do better with for example, AFDDs.

The IET's guidance on which standard to use for inspection and testing of electrical installations is covered in IET Guidance Note 3 (Section 3.12 in the 2022 Edition), and that position is supported by Note 2 to Regulation 651.2.

There would be little point in conducting a current safety inspection to a withdrawn version of a standard, as the results would be questionable.

Some notes from BSI on withdrawn standards (including where referenced in legislation and contracts - two distinct different cases)  can be found here: https://memberportal.bsigroup.com/public/2017/january/the-uses-of-withdrawn-standards/

The lawmakers, or whoever collated the wording should have written- 'must comply with the Wiring regulations that are current at the time of the Inspection.'

Apparently someone did raise that very point with those concerned - and it turned out it was a deliberate, principled, decision to specify a fixed version of the regs. The problem is that if the legislation says 'the current standard' then those writing that next version of the standard in effect get to say what the law will be - and parliament think that sort of thing is their prerogative. They call such things ambulatory legislation and are keen to avoid it.  Parliament far prefers the option of seeing what the next version actually turns out like and then deciding whether to take it into law or not.

It does rather back fire though when different pieces of legislation refer to different versions of the Wiring Regs though (I believe the ESQCR still refer to an even earlier version).

   - Andy.

I was going to start a thread on this very topic having received the email from the IET.

I typed it up and tried to send it but it would not send and gave me an error message something about quotation mark although my post did not contain quotation marks. I several attempts I gave up in frustration.

Lisa

This new forum is a pain to work with and I am sure people are not posting due to the new forum not being user friendly. The posts not appearing in chronological order is less than helpful. Posts disappearing  or being moved to other forums is unhelpful. Could you please take out all the unwanted fancy stuff so it works just like the previous edition.

Thanks

JP

As Graham has already said you inspect and test installations to the latest edition of BS 7671 not some earlier edition regardless if it complied when originally installed.

Yes the government people cannot impose legislation to say "shall comply with the current edition of BS 7671" as the government cannot produce binding legislation with items that they have not seen.

Part P is a good example of that. So is the PRS legislation. It has to be amended and put on the table in parliament to see if our lawmakers have any objections in which case it will have to be debated. No objections after a set period then it becomes law.

GUIDANCE note 3 says we should I&T to the current version, but where is this in BS7671 any AMD? All i can find is that previous installs may be safe, and may comply with EAWR. 

A landlord asks for an EICR to comply with the regs, the sparky gives them a non-compliant report to AMD2. 

If BS7671 2018 had had a reg that said you should I&T to the current version there would be no problem.

• Edit; then I suppose it would become ambulatory by default. I can't square complying with a law which fines the landlord for non-compliance, with being prosecuted for saying something is safe for continued use when according to the latest edition it would not be. Glad I don't do EICRs

Yes, NHS renaming. So will have to wait a bit longer. Cheers.

What is it going to affect in a typical rented home, excluding HMOs?