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Bonding in greenhouse

On an eicr

I have a greenhouse connected to a sub DB in an outhouse, which is on a TT earth. Circuit is protected by upstream 30mA and 100mA RCD's.

I am debating in my mind if the frame of the greenhouse should be bonded to the single socket in the green house.

I would consider the frame as an extraneous part and therefore first reaction is to bond it.

But then thinking about it. bonding would reduce the risk of shock inside the greenhouse in the case of the socket became live but increase the risk of shock outside the greenhouse if the socket and greenhouse became live.

On balance I am tempted to go with not bonding, what are your thoughts?

Parents
  • A greenhouse is a building, and although most come under permitted development classification, some require planning permission.

    BS 7671 requires protective bonding to be applied within each building where ADS is used, and that includes structural parts of the building if they are  extraneous-conductive-parts.

    Note 1: the protective bonding applies to each building; however, if a PME earthing arrangement is exported to a building or outbuilding, the PE conductor to the outbuilding should meet or exceed the minimum cross-sectional area requirements for the PME service of the intake of the premises.

    Note 2: Depending on the DNO's local network characteristics, they may recommend against exporting PME earthing arrangements to certain metal-clad or metal-framed buildings or outbuildings. See G12/4 and guidance from your local DNO.

    The only thing to decide is whether (depending on the structure itself) the metal frame is actually an extraneous-conductive-part. There is guidance for this. As has already been said, if there is a wooden footing frame or brick footing wall extending above ground level, effectively separating the frame from the ground, then the metal frame may not be an extraneous-conductive-part.

    The key risk to avoid is for persons within the greenhouse having contact with both exposed-conductive-parts and extraneous-conductive-parts. Again, as has already been said:

    (a) If the metal frame is not an extraneous-conductive-part, then bonding it may increase risks for those touching the greenhouse frame from outdoors if there is a fault. If it is not an extraneous-conductive-part, it may not be wise to bond it.

    (b) If the metal frame is an extraneous-conductive-part, it should be bonded, but note that it will cause a slight ground potential rise around the building during a fault if it is main bonded, so the risk to someone touching the frame from outside is reduced.

  • The greenhouse supply is TT. And two R.C.D.s connected in series protect the installation. Any earth leakage will disconnect the supply in a very short time indeed.

    Why bond the greenhouse?

    P.S. on a dry sunny day the greenhouse may just be electrically  "floating", On a wet day it may be an extraneous-conductive-part. Oh for the wisdom of Solomon.

    Z.

  • Well you could have a box with a relay in it that bonds it or not if the effective electrode resistance falls low enough to warrant it (20k ohms or so I reckon),  I suppose. I cannot see anyone bothering that much.

    A more practical point is how much of an installation is there, and how is it installed - if it is a rag tag of hundreds of metres of flexes draped over sharp edged angle iron supplying grow lamps, or there is a lot of class 1 kit, the argument to earth and bond, so it is clearly not floating, is higher, as there is a credible path to a live chassis fault. If there are a couple of sockets that supply double insulated tools occasionally, then the off- earth condition is more likely.

    Mike

  • Why not just connect the meatal frame to an earth electrode like the countryside oil heating pipes? Then the earth is earthed, the green house floor is earthed, and the outside soil is earthed, and the greenhouse frame is earthed and safely watched over by Mr. R.C.D. (X 2).

    Z.

  • The greenhouse supply is TT. And two R.C.D.s connected in series protect the installation. Any earth leakage will disconnect the supply in a very short time indeed.

    Why bond the greenhouse?

    Because the greenhouse is a building, and, if the frame of the greenhouse is actually an extraneous-conductive-part, it is a requirement of Regulation Group 411.3, specifically Regulation 411.3.1.2, which is common to both TN and TT systems.

    Quite simply, if the frame of the greenhouse were an extraneous-conductive-part, and the greenhouse contains fixed wiring, omitting the bonding means the installation in the greenhouse might not comply with BS 7671.

    For clarity, if the frame is NOT an extraneous-conductive-part, then it does not need to be (and perhaps as discussed above should not be) bonded.

    It also doesn't have to be connected to the rest of the TT system, or to the PME supply (if originally supplied from PME) - see below. However, the bonding between cpc's in the greenhouse, and the greenhouse itself (if an extraneous-conductive-part) is required by BS 7671.

Reply
  • The greenhouse supply is TT. And two R.C.D.s connected in series protect the installation. Any earth leakage will disconnect the supply in a very short time indeed.

    Why bond the greenhouse?

    Because the greenhouse is a building, and, if the frame of the greenhouse is actually an extraneous-conductive-part, it is a requirement of Regulation Group 411.3, specifically Regulation 411.3.1.2, which is common to both TN and TT systems.

    Quite simply, if the frame of the greenhouse were an extraneous-conductive-part, and the greenhouse contains fixed wiring, omitting the bonding means the installation in the greenhouse might not comply with BS 7671.

    For clarity, if the frame is NOT an extraneous-conductive-part, then it does not need to be (and perhaps as discussed above should not be) bonded.

    It also doesn't have to be connected to the rest of the TT system, or to the PME supply (if originally supplied from PME) - see below. However, the bonding between cpc's in the greenhouse, and the greenhouse itself (if an extraneous-conductive-part) is required by BS 7671.

Children
  • "Quite simply, if the frame of the greenhouse were an extraneous-conductive-part, and the greenhouse contains fixed wiring, omitting the bonding means the installation in the greenhouse might not comply with BS 7671."

    Some years ago B.S. 7671 had us bonding stainless steel sinks/draining boards in domestic kitchens. The makers even provided a small tag with a hole in it for the bonding cables as stainless steel is not easy to drill. That requirement is not now required. So, B.S. 7671 is not always right and its requirements not set in stone.

    Are non bonded kitchen draining boards more dangerous or less?

    Z.

  • Some years ago B.S. 7671 had us bonding stainless steel sinks/draining boards in domestic kitchens. The makers even provided a small tag with a hole in it for the bonding cables as stainless steel is not easy to drill. That requirement is not now required. So, B.S. 7671 is not always right and its requirements not set in stone.

    Yes, that went out more than 30 years ago I seem to remember.

    We are, I hope, discussing BS 7671:2018+A2:2022. The current requirements may well change: standards do change and evolve as people learn.

    Until then, not providing the bonding if the frame is an extraneous-conductive-part might be considered a departure, and that is up to the designer to determine and justify, of course. There may be cases this is advantageous ... I don't think we could comment further on that for a "general case" discussion.

    Guidance Note 5 provides further information on this topic.

    Are non bonded kitchen draining boards more dangerous or less?

    Good question - perhaps another lenghty discussion on the different use-cases and installation arrangement examples.