Not much science but definitely kick ass

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We have generations worth of fossil fuels under our feet.

Where? Not gas or oil - that's already far past peak and we've not been able to produce enough even for our own use for a decade or more now. Shale gas doesn't look like it'll produce enough to make a significant difference given our geology and seems to have much more of its share of problems from extraction if the US experience was anything to go by (everything from earthquakes to contaminated ground water), Coal - all the 'easy' coal has gone - there may be plenty more there in theory but extracting it wasn't economic even a generation ago. There's an ex-miner in my family  - went through the 1980s strikes and all that  - but now he's found work 'in the sun' wouldn't go back underground for even twice the money. It's a dirty dangerous business.

   - Andy.

I think mining technology has moved on a lot since then, with automated plant and less need for actual men to go underground these days.

I would agree with your reservations on fracking though. As a commodity because more scarce, it's price rises and suddenly it becomes economical to actually go for the 'harder stuff'.

If we were serious about it, then more R&D into clean coal tech might head off any 'green' reservations in future.

What's the alternative?

Not allowed nuclear not allowed gas not allowed coal. 

And to top that we pay compensation to undeveloped economies because of our success.

And dint say wind turbines and storage that don't exist.

We should be self sufficient in our energy and deal with any issues locally and not pay any so called compensation.

I think mining technology has moved on a lot since then, with automated plant and less need for actual men to go underground these days.

It has a bit - but you still need people to maintain the machines - which all works well when coal seams are many feet thick so there's space to work - but that's the easy coal. It's the thinner seams that are much more difficult to work - in Victorian days they could send a man down with a pick to to lie on his side to work the face and could win coal from seams down to about 18" think - but men won't work in such conditions now. and even if you could get a machine small enough to fit you couldn't maintain it effectively. The only option would be to cut far into the surrounding rock to create a much larger tunnel - but then you're having to cut and move a huge amount of rock for a relatively small amount of useful coal - so efficiency and practicality strike again. Quite a few mines survived the 1980s - a few even managed by the miners themselves so had every reason to persist - yet we have not one deep mine left now.

   - Andy.

Jon Steward said:

And dint say wind turbines and storage that don't exist.

The coal mines don't exist any more either, nor all the coal fired power stations that would burn it.

AJJewsbury said:

yet we have not one deep mine left now.

Leaving aside the fact that pit villages and towns were built over the coal, what about open cast?

An entire underground mine can be operated from a laptop computer when it’s set up.

Some of equipment was being made here in Worcester at the former Meco  factory that Dowty Mining took, over then American Joy Mining bought, before the Japanese Komatsu acquired it and who have now closed it.

I visited the factory around ten years ago on an IET Local Group visit, they manufactured the roof supports and had one on display at the front of the works that had been stress tested to the point it could not be used.

Ten years ago the steel was made in South Wales then shipped to Poland for fabrication in the old ship building works before being shipped back to Worcester, despite the factory in Worcester having its own railway sidings and a direct rail link to the steel works in South Wales.

The guy showing us around the factory in Worcester said they were a victim of cheap transport, making it affordable to transport massive machines over huge distances during the manufacturing process rather than working on one site.

Machines that were eventually going to Australia were doing a tour of Europe whilst being assembled.

There’s still a demand for coal, as I understand it EV batteries cannot be made without it neither can steel, but the nimbys don’t want the coal to be dug out in this country despite being available and being needed in this country.

Leaving aside the fact that pit villages and towns were built over the coal, what about open cast?

If you have good amount of coal relatively close to the surface ... but that's the easy coal that's almost all been taken in these parts.That's the trouble with being first with the industrial revolution - we've a couple of centuries ahead in terms of depletion. We didn't start "deep" mining for the fun of it.

   - Andy.

I was working on some topside plant at Hadfield Colliery a few years ago, the chief mining chap said that there was a minimum of 20 years worth of coal deposits left on the site.

Now it's shut!