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551.7.2 - Protecting switchgear from overload due to multiple sources

Morning all

Imagine, if you will, a customer main LV switchboard, form 4, with 2500A ACB incomer off the transformer tails, on the left, onto top busbars rated at 2500A. The ACB long time overcurrent is set to 1.0xIn, and while the load is usually some way below that, the factory engingeering staff aren't keen having settings below maximum to allow for future flexibility. As with many industrial settings, downtime for works is precious and available only sparingly. The switchboard has been in service for many years and contacting the original manufacturer for calculations is not likely to be possible.

Management would like an embedded generator (which type is immaterial) that would need a 100A OCPD off this switchboard. The two 200A switchfuses furthest from the incomer, bottom right, are used for existing loads (fused let's say at 63A and 125A), but the next way up is free. We could make it more tempting by suggesting it's already equipped with a 200A switch fuse needing only the right size BS88s, so an easy win.

It would, at first glance, appear sensible to use this spare way, requiring minimal works and distruption to the ongoing site processes. I would argue that it is not possible to overload the busbar below the generator connection because that's limited by the sum of the outgoing OCPDs = 63+125 = 188 < 2500A. Indeed the ways are only rated 200A each so even if circuits change, you can only get 400A without major surgery. Likewise it is not possible to overload the busbar upstream because even if you had 2600A of total load, because it's now fed from either end, no section of busbar could be called on to carry that much. An exception might be if it was a switchboard with multiple vertical droppers and the sum of each OCPD coming off one of those exceeded 2500A* since in that case the application of diversity relies on the incomer ACB being present.

But then we refer to BS7671 551.7.2, which says we can't do this, because 2500 + 100 > 2500A and instead we must either demand that the ACB is dialled down, and if that is not possible for any reason, we have to inform management that sorry, you can't connect the generator on the outgoing side, so instead we need to spur off the transformer tails into a switchfuse or something similar. Assuming there is room, and aside from the ugly equipment configuration it would necessitate, this means a shutdown to carry out relatively high risk work (commercially: If something goes wrong and it's not safe/possible to re-energise on schedule, the whole factory can't operate). Understandably, no-one is keen.

So... Is this time for a departure? On the grounds that we've assessed the risk in accordance with the underlying principle and the proposed design is no less safe than simply following that regulation. Or has something been missed?

Is the fact that it's form 4, so the fusegear is well spaced, of import, or could one apply similar logic to form 2 boards with adjacent MCCBs, as long as nothing is running too warm?

And/or is there some protection one could reach for to sum the incoming supplies?

Finally, if this generator was, in fact, connected via an existing submains, 551.7.2 strictly only says one needs to consider where the connection is made. But surely the fact that "it was there before" isn't much of a defence so one should consider everything upstream in the same fashion. Which makes connecting generators to anything other than the main switchboard somewhat fraught, unless whoever did the original install was kind enough to size equipment larger than the upstream protection.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do absolutely get, in principle, that it does need consideration. For example, if one had a domestic CU with an 100A service fuse, rooftop PV, batteries in the garage able to feed internal loads via G100 ELS, an EV charger, and electric heating (etc) the risk of cooking the CU with busbar currents well over rated for protected periods is quite high.

I know some here have been involved and gave talks on this regulation when it came out, so would very much appreciate your thoughts. Apologies if this all made clear somewhere (I didn't spot it in an IET COP last night); I've not been involved with this type of project since the regulation was changed.

Thanks
Jam

NB: This is an amalgamation of a number of sites I've seen lately. I've added some details to help give a picture but it is entirely fictional.

* If the vertical bars are not fully rated, due to diversity assumptions, the problem, if there is one, is then more to do with the design of the switchboard than the connection of the generator, so I'd rather not confuse things here.

Parents
  • PS - And where does this leave an option, for example, to monitor the total current into the switchboard (let's say via a set of CTs on each supply and a summation transformer to an overload (overcurrent) relay)?

  • Where did the first (longer) reply go?

  • [Edit: Deleted duplicate post]

  • "The switchboard has an "xx A" plate on it and if, as is almost always the case, the protective device is set to that rating, no generation can be connected downstream."

    True - the question is who is responsible for up-issuing that plate in effect, and saying it can be changed - hence my comment about someone coming in and assuming the mantle of design authority.

    What is needed is enough info to re-plate it to say

    'xxA via input no 1 and

    zz A via input no 2,

    total outgoing load not exceeding XX+ zz

    (Domestic consumer units could/ should say not  more than 100A via main switch, no more than 16A of  embedded generation via any MCB and total load not to exceed 116A for example - but only if someone knew enough about the design to be confident to say to say it was OK - in effect this is the  assumption made but it is not made explicitly, which may not be wise. )


    In an ideal world  your factory panel would also say XX amps, Joe Bloggs 01483 xxxyyy  and you could call them and say 'Joe- can we chat about re-purposing that design you did in 1973? ..' Of course that is total fantasy. We usually have no idea who or what assumptions about heat flow, de-rating etc were made by the original makers back at some time and place far away.

    It is also a fair bet that if generation was not part of the original remit , then it was never considered that some of the current could ever be going the wrong way, and coming in one of the outputs, so the rating plate will be for single input multiple outputs only - so it may well be OK, it was just never considered.  And to be safe, the full gamut of things that may go wrong need to be considered before doing it.

    Again, there will be loads of cases that are just fine, but they need some analysis before leaping.

    Mike.

  •  Your post was caught in the automatic spam prevention queue due to 'text repetition' i.e. because you'd repeatedly quoted Mapj (Mapj said) etc. 

    It's now been manually approved Slight smile

  • clearly I said too much ;-)

  •    Joy

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