Some SPD advice please

I feel duty bound to fit SPD protection whilst I am modernizing an installation, but there are couple of issues which are vexing me so I would appreciate an opinion from the few learned colleagues who are still here please.

The part of the installation to be protected is served by an SP DB served by a 30 m long distribution circuit through a B63 MCB. Zs of the DB is 0.30 Ohms.

I have sought the advice of the manufacturer (Eaton) but they fell short of the service which I have obtained previously. The call centre is in Hungary and the operative's first language appears not to be English, so the combination of poor reception and the language barrier hardly helped.

I had 2 questions. First, although the SPD kit comes in its own enclosure, I would like to put it in the DB, which would be neater and minimize the length of the connecting leads. Quite reasonably, Eaton's response was that this would probably be fine, but because it has not been tested as such, they cannot recommend it.

My second question concerned the MCB for the SPD. The kit includes a C63 MCB. Clearly, this will provide no discrimination. The BEAMA Guide says that a 20 A MCB should be adequate. However, this is what Eaton said:

"Having said that, max. back-up provides highest possible voltage protection level (Up). Therefore, going below that is not an issue as long as this protection device does not affect the Up of the installation.  

In UK we also suggest to use a 40A, 50A, or 63A type C breaker as long as above statement of Up is met. Since we cannot calculate the application and installation at a customer side, we could only recommend this."

So my question here is whether lowering the rating of the MCB might make the SPD pointless please? I might add that we have not had a damaging surge over the past 26 years so it all seems to be a bit hypothetical any way.

  • question here is whether lowering the rating of the MCB might make the SPD pointless please?

    Not at all - the SPD carries no current at all most of the time, until it carries potentially huge currents (kA )for times that are  very very short compared with the time it takes a breaker to yawn, stretch and think about tripping - the effect of the actual rating of that  MCB on the waveforms that fast is pretty much negligible.
    I suppose if the over-voltage is due to say an HV transformer failure rather than a short transient, so the SPD conducts for more than a fraction of a msec, the breaker may operate, but then we would probably like it to do  so. Until it is reset the SPD is then out of the loop of course. But for all the kind of events an SPD is supposed to trap, no normal MCB will get anywhere near de-latching before it is all over, so the exact MCB ratng is not so important. The main use of a fuse or breaker with an SPD is to disconnect safely it once it fails and goes short circuit - which they do tend to do if overheated by an extra long over-voltage, or if 'lifed' by too many transients at or near the upper rating.

    Mike.

  • The part of the installation to be protected is served by an SP DB served by a 30 m long distribution circuit through a B63 MCB.

    :

    My second question concerned the MCB for the SPD. The kit includes a C63 MCB. Clearly, this will provide no discrimination. The BEAMA Guide says that a 20 A MCB should be adequate.

    MCBs are pretty rubbish at discrimination anyway - if the fault current is reasonably high then both MCBs will likely de-latch before either breaks the current - so typically both end up tripping.  Better solution (SPDs or not) might be a HBC fuse for the submain rather than a B63.

       - Andy.

  • Mike, many thanks. Yes hopefully, the SPD lives to fight another day, but I was aware that they can fail short circuit. I had wondered whether energy let through was an important consideration on the basis that you want as much as possible to be diverted through the SPD.

    Any thoughts on the enclosure?

  • Andy, thank you. It would be nice if one could get fuse holders to go in standard DBs, but at, least with the ones that I have, they are not.

    I think that discrimination in the domestic context is over-played and I am I am not too worried about it. I don't really see why a fault should develop in the fixed wiring - we don't go around banging nails into walls. The PFC at sockets will be around 250 A so a B32 may win the race. More likely is a fault in a flex or appliance in which case we can rely upon the BS 1362 fuse.

  • It would be nice if one could get fuse holders to go in standard DBs

    You're not the first to think that - it was one of the features of the fictitious "Concept" range...

    PDF

    I think that discrimination in the domestic context is over-played and I am I am not too worried about it. I don't really see why a fault should develop in the fixed wiring - we don't go around banging nails into walls. The PFC at sockets will be around 250 A so a B32 may win the race. More likely is a fault in a flex or appliance in which case we can rely upon the BS 1362 fuse.

    As a B-type can trip at anything over 3x it's rating, so 250A can easily de-latch a B63 (as well as the B32). Indeed common experience is that a B32 trips and the 13A fuse remains intact on appliance faults. It was all some much nicer before MCBs - 13A plug fused discriminated very nicely with 30A fusewire, which in turn discriminated with a 60A DNO fuse. simples.

       - Andy.