Portable battery powered AC power banks are they a danger

Hi , hoping for someone to shed light on a topic regards the trend of battery bank AC supplies from the likes of Anker or Jackery 

my concerns are these devices get their own classification such as double insulated , class b for their own function which is to be charged from the 230AC socket ... fine if their out put is ELV

however they have multiple 230VAC sockets on them allowing 1500W +

BS7671 sec 551 requires generating units (of electrochemical accumulators ) to feature an RCD on final circuits. 100% of these power banks do not have an RCD , favouring separated voltage and electronics ( not SELV ) , however this is over the 110AC limit BS7671 allows for ....

my question is how are these units able to meet regulations and gain CE marking and ultimately be safe 

they are essentially able to pile 6 Amps at 230V with only overload to protect you which personally is a little more than the 30mA we are so dearly bound to 

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  • Looking about I  presume you mean these sort of things.

    https://www.hampshiregenerators.co.uk/product/generators/portable-power-stations/anker-535-powerhouse-portable-power-station/

     Never used that exact make, but the comments below are general..

    Personally I'd be far more worried about the fact that these can encourage the casual use of 13A sockets in the rain, which seems generally to be a regulatory blind spot for outdoor power in the UK, rather than the presence of an RCD that will never trip, as until you add an NE link there is no path to operate one. In that sense the comment that it is like a small genset is very true, as they are normally floating windings. Here there is no 50Hz transformer, but a battery operated screamer running supersonically, with a very small ferrite core, rectified to create a DC , and then some power transistors that commute the output between the DC levels to fake a sine wave from bits of square wave...

    Some designs can also be an EMC nightmare - I'm not saying this one is especially but fast switching devices and hundreds of volts p-p can wreak havoc.

    As regards CE/UKCA  marking, it only needs to meets the harmonised standards that apply to that product group - probably the LVD, EMC and machinery directives, and certainly not BS7671.

    Mike

  • Some designs can also be an EMC nightmare

    And regardless of EMC, there's the basic issue of whether a switched-mode converter is compatible with a switched-mode power supply or a switched-mode power controller (e.g. VSD) ... perhaps another avenue that standards ought to have explored well before now to ensure compatibility ?

  • The incompatibility should certainly be more widely published. Inverters are very different to mains, in waveform and in over-current performance, and as you say the behaviour on a negative resistance load (i.e. where current goes up as voltage falls, unlike a 'normal' positive resistance where current and voltage rise and fall together) like an SMPS can be quite exciting.

    A large part of the advantage of switching designs at least in the portable kind, is the small size and light weight, and that does mean not being able to store much energy in large capacitors and inductors, so I do not think you can mandate that inverters should all behave like inertial gensets, but to require makers to be honest about their waveforms and clear about earthing or lack of it would be a very good start.

    Something similar requiring labels on dimmers and LEDs would be good too. - trailing edge, leading edge, pure sine and switched capacitor dimmers are all uniquely incompatible with some designs of light...

    But for me the thing that I see giving the most problems, in terms of damage and 'tingles' is the use of 13A sockets, that are really an indoor beast, and only scarcely  up to 13A in many designs, in places with rain and splashing, where something more like the old BS4343 would be far better - perhaps a shuttered version of that is needed.

    Mike

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  • The incompatibility should certainly be more widely published. Inverters are very different to mains, in waveform and in over-current performance, and as you say the behaviour on a negative resistance load (i.e. where current goes up as voltage falls, unlike a 'normal' positive resistance where current and voltage rise and fall together) like an SMPS can be quite exciting.

    A large part of the advantage of switching designs at least in the portable kind, is the small size and light weight, and that does mean not being able to store much energy in large capacitors and inductors, so I do not think you can mandate that inverters should all behave like inertial gensets, but to require makers to be honest about their waveforms and clear about earthing or lack of it would be a very good start.

    Something similar requiring labels on dimmers and LEDs would be good too. - trailing edge, leading edge, pure sine and switched capacitor dimmers are all uniquely incompatible with some designs of light...

    But for me the thing that I see giving the most problems, in terms of damage and 'tingles' is the use of 13A sockets, that are really an indoor beast, and only scarcely  up to 13A in many designs, in places with rain and splashing, where something more like the old BS4343 would be far better - perhaps a shuttered version of that is needed.

    Mike

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