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City and Guilds 2330

Scott Seedell

Has anyone studied CG2330 and subsequently discovered problems with it? 

We're in the process of promoting one of our employees to a QS position (we're with the NICEIC) and having completed all the forms, it turns out that the technical certificate he did in his apprenticeship in 2011 is now not worth anything. Certainly it isn't deemed suitable as a craft qualification for a QS role anyway. It seems that in their wisdom, the EAS (who are they anyway??) have decided that suitable level 3 qualifications do not now include the CG2330 and have unilaterally decided to remove it, despite it once being accredited as the recognised technical certificate of apprenticeships for several years. He clearly had no choice in the technical certificate he studied, it was just part of his apprenticeship at the time.

So an electrician with a full apprenticeship under his belt and over 12 years industry experience is now deemed not as qualified as an apprentice completing their studies in 2023, or an adult trainee having completed an intensive 28 day training course. They honestly think this is reducing electrical incidents? The NICEIC are typically not interested at all and have ruled out any form of appeals procedure where it can be justified that his experience and once-recognised qualifications are just as viable as anything being taught today. Their only solution is to suggest he takes an additional course. The organisation doesn't seem the least bit interested in standards of electrical safety, they're just happy to take customer's money off them. On top of this are the amazing double-standards and confusion in this industry. He can apply for a JIB gold card as approved electrician (the ECS & JIB accept his qualifications - it's just the EAS that don't).

How on Earth do we try and get some uniformity with the these different organisations (ECA, JIB, ECS, EAS etc etc etc) and get them all singing off the same hymn sheet? Is there any point trying to lobby anyone to look at the blatant discrimination at play with retrospectively degrading someone's apprenticeship? This is unfairly hampering career progression and we can't be the only ones affected.

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  • 0

    Having the same kind of issue with NICEIC - I nominated one of my Electricians (early 50's) as a QS and his application was rejected as his apprenticeship qualifications were not on the proscribed list. This is despite him holding a current approved Electrician Gold Card, being an HV AP, having his 2391 and having years of experience. 

    As i'm in my early forties and completed my apprenticeship a few years after him, have an SVQ 3, Gold and Black CSCS card, 2391 etc -  I applied as QS just out of interest and got the same answer. 

    One of my younger team members has just sat his 2391 last week and can now be a QS despite not having anywhere near the same level of experience or supplementary qualifications.

    Absolute madness.

    I think the JIB is going the same way as well - no more Industry Accreditation from this year.

  • 0 in reply to Tommy Bell

    Seeing this thread resurface and I am not surprised ever more are being affected by this nonsense.

    To update my situation re: proof of apprenticeship.
    After working my way through all trade sources and educational bodies I hit a dead head. No one had proof I was with NORWEB during the period of my qualifications (1980's 2361 & 2362) and the time beyond...

    I then had a thought. Who would for sure have records that they would have kept forever if not longer. HMRC they will have records, they want your money, they will have records for sure. And so, I sent a subject access request for my data asking for my work history for the period of the apprenticeship / qualification dates and the time that following.

    Well, sure enough they sent back the records showing I was indeed with NORWEB, for the period I stated and they even had how much I was paid for each year there! Could buy an house with £7000 but I digress.

    I sent this document as proof of an apprenticeship. Annnnd Computer says no. Reason: words to the effect of 'Ok you were there for the full 4 years from 16 years of age to 20 years of age and for a few years after, yes your wage increased at each stage, yes you took electrical qualifications during this period, yes those qualifications could only have been done with an indentured apprenticeship, yes NORWEB and C & G have confirmed that... BUT maybe you was employed by NORWEB as a cleaner... or something'.

    It's nonsense and no one in any of these bodies are prepared to think any further than it must be 'X' you present us with and proof of apprenticeship must be a letter given you at the time (or similar).

    Anyway, all us old boys will be dead and then the ECS and JIB can declare 'look we have solved the problem' 'well done us'.

Reply
  • 0 in reply to Tommy Bell

    Seeing this thread resurface and I am not surprised ever more are being affected by this nonsense.

    To update my situation re: proof of apprenticeship.
    After working my way through all trade sources and educational bodies I hit a dead head. No one had proof I was with NORWEB during the period of my qualifications (1980's 2361 & 2362) and the time beyond...

    I then had a thought. Who would for sure have records that they would have kept forever if not longer. HMRC they will have records, they want your money, they will have records for sure. And so, I sent a subject access request for my data asking for my work history for the period of the apprenticeship / qualification dates and the time that following.

    Well, sure enough they sent back the records showing I was indeed with NORWEB, for the period I stated and they even had how much I was paid for each year there! Could buy an house with £7000 but I digress.

    I sent this document as proof of an apprenticeship. Annnnd Computer says no. Reason: words to the effect of 'Ok you were there for the full 4 years from 16 years of age to 20 years of age and for a few years after, yes your wage increased at each stage, yes you took electrical qualifications during this period, yes those qualifications could only have been done with an indentured apprenticeship, yes NORWEB and C & G have confirmed that... BUT maybe you was employed by NORWEB as a cleaner... or something'.

    It's nonsense and no one in any of these bodies are prepared to think any further than it must be 'X' you present us with and proof of apprenticeship must be a letter given you at the time (or similar).

    Anyway, all us old boys will be dead and then the ECS and JIB can declare 'look we have solved the problem' 'well done us'.

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