I've a really small job to quote ( adding a fused spur off an existing radial ) in a care home ,with a decent , but fairly old wylex board . am i right in assuming i have to fit an AFDD ?? , I know i would if it was a new circuit being installed , but being only a fused spur off an existing radial , it seems a massive expense for what is supposed to be an easy job ?? can't seem to find any conclusive answers on line anywhere .
any thoughts would be appreciated
The world has gone mad!
What is the fused spur for? Could it be for something which might have been plugged in?
421.1.7 is muddled. "AFDD ... shall be provided for ... car homes". "For all other premises, [not Grenfell] the use of AFDDs ... is recommended ... for sockets". And it has to be at the origin, which can only mean a new DB.
Shall or recommended? Is this proportionate?
Looking from another angle, if you pop back in a couple of years to do a PIR, how will you code the work? Does the new bit get a different code from the old bits?
Looking from another angle,
According to the Best Practice Guide 4, the lack of AFDDs in care homes should be reported as a C3 observation. Does this mean that it is advisable to make improvements, but not mandatory.
According to the Best Practice Guide 4, the lack of AFDDs in care homes should be reported as a C3 observation. Does this mean that it is advisable to make improvements, but not mandatory.
Hence the point about raising it with the duty holder.
I have, of course, assumed that the radial in the circuit the OP is describing has socket-outlets.
Would it require a documented risk assessment like for omitting RCD protection, as required by Regulation 411.3.3 and attaching it to the minor work certificate?
Would it require a documented risk assessment like for omitting RCD protection, as required by Regulation 411.3.3 and attaching it to the minor work certificate?
BS 7671 doesn't require one. You can note that there isn't one on your certification also.
But if it were on a socket-outlet circuit, I think that it would be wise to bring it to the attention of the duty holder all the same.
I agree that the duty holder should be informed of this issue. Are there any case studies that demonstrate the advantages of installing AFDDs in care homes? Simply mentioning the regulation number on the certificate may not be enough. Perhaps it would be more effective to have a conversation with the duty holder about the risks of omitting AFDDs and the benefits of having them.
Are there any case studies that demonstrate the advantages of installing AFDDs in care homes? Simply mentioning the regulation number on the certificate may not be enough.
Surely that's outside the remit of the electrician? Highlighting the fac that the standard requires them in some cases, and recommends them in others, is sufficient for the duty holder to consult a relevant fire safety professional on the impact of omitting the device on the fire safety risk assessment?
Unless of course the electrician were a suitably competent fire safety professional?
My opinion for care home
New circuits. Yes fit AFDD as stated in the Regs and BPG4
Alteration of circuits. Yes fit AFDD as stated in the Regs and BPG4
Change of accessory. No need for AFDD but there are caveats
Questions
Does a dwelling become a care home if the person inside is bed bound?
How do you safely test the AFDD part of the device? MCB & RCBO part have tests and testing devices.
When was the last EICR done on this care home? If lots of C3s should the Duty holder not get the board upgraded?
Does the duty holder have an up to date Risk assesment for the premesis as any C3 should be added to it?
My opinion for care home
New circuits. Yes fit AFDD as stated in the Regs and BPG4
Alteration of circuits. Yes fit AFDD as stated in the Regs and BPG4
Change of accessory. No need for AFDD but there are caveats
Questions
Does a dwelling become a care home if the person inside is bed bound?
How do you safely test the AFDD part of the device? MCB & RCBO part have tests and testing devices.
When was the last EICR done on this care home? If lots of C3s should the Duty holder not get the board upgraded?
Does the duty holder have an up to date Risk assesment for the premesis as any C3 should be added to it?
Does a dwelling become a care home if the person inside is bed bound?
Is it a commercial opeation with a continuous supply of many customers ?
If not then it it is just a normal house, just one that currently has a poorly person in it.
A respectable fraction of UK houses have a recovering stroke victim or similar invalid, looked after by their healthier partner or with more or less support from family & friends or Adult Social services. However, for legal purposes it remains a domestic hosuehold.
Given that such household arrangements tend to be termporary. (perhaps the patient is no longer there, after either getting better or worse, or the money running out and thr house is sold to pay for care, or the carer themselves becomes unable to cope) it is likely that the situation will not persist for a significant part of the life of the electrical installation.
I'd see that as a very different situation to a business with a steady flow of new custmoers, permanent salaried staff, and all the other regulatory obligations that come with that.
Mike
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