Long meter tail upgrade, no nice solution comes to mind.

Hi All.

Thought I'd open this one up for discussion as I'm sure some of you can come up with a nice solution.

I've been given a friendly notice that i need to do something about the meter tails in my house by my DNO following the installation of a smart meter. They're the wrong gauge for the master fuse (16mm2 on a 100A fuse) and too long, about 4m. I'm having a job coming up with a solution I like. The current installation is original from when my house was built in 1996 and has gone unnoticed until now.

The meter is in a box on the front wall of the house and the tails exit this, run up the inside of the wall and over the ceiling of what was originally a bin cupboard in an uninsulated roof space before entering the distribution board directly though the hallway wall. The logical thing to do would be to protect the tails by replacing them with SWA but I have two problems with that. 1 that I have no way of terminating the SWA in the meter box without invading the DNO's space and 2 I'm not confident in brining in SWA from behind the board, as I'd effectively have to terminate it long and push some excess back into the roof space, and end up with the SWA termination in the wall screwed to the back of the board. So I can see this option needing me to bring the SWA in from above or below the board which would be ugly as sin in my hallway, doubly so as it'll have a bend radius easily measured in miles.

So I've considered using Steel Conduit instead, as that should be as tough as SWA. However unless I've missed something the largest I can get is 32mm OD which has an ID of circa 27mm. As I'm expecting some quite high temperatures in the roof space during the summer 25mm2 (rated to 101A if I'm reading Appendix 4 properly) could well end up under rated in the summer, so I'd be best to use 35mm2. This has a max OD of 13.5mm according to Doncaster cables meaning it'll be tight getting 2 down it.

I considered using XLPE Insulated 25mm as that can run hotter but of cause there's the 70 degC conductor limit of the board so it's not a help.

Bringing my back to SWA again.

I don't want to put joints in above the bin cupboard as there's no way of inspecting them.

So any other ideas of what I could do to protect the cables sufficiently to ignore the limits?

Thanks in advance.

Parents
  • My thoughts

    I do a lot of work around Swindon, I would say 40% or more of the many new houses have standard  tails running through the fabric of the building without additional protection.

    If you are running the tails through the loft space, say clipped to beans or something, away from the ceiling below I wouldn't consider them buried in the fabric of the building to depth of less than 50mm. Inside a wall is at a depth of more than 50mm. 

    My understanding is that using SWA is so that nails etc come in to contact with the earthed armour and live conductor at the same time, SWA is never going to stop a nail or a screw, it will just go through a gap in the strands.If SWA is used (not sure RCD protection is required, need to check the regs). thinking logically if the cable is damaged fault current will be connected to the armour and not the person holding the drill. I would think the pragmatic approach is protection by a 100mA time delayed RCD, it's what I have done in the past anyway.

    If you can get conduit in, could you buy some 3mm thick capping from a steel merchant and use this instead, I am informed this is what some house builders do.

    Then I would have a switched fused isolator in a steel case, mounted in the meter cabinet, proteus is about the smallest I have found, then replaced the switch with the RCD. Get rid if the DNO's isolator switch as it's not required any more, SSEN have a policy where they allow registered electricians to break the fuse seals provided they replace them and apply a sticker with  their details to the fuse. EV installers end up cutting the seals on fuses in over 50% of installs, there is no way the DNO's can keep up.

    Tails from the meter to the fused switch, swa terminated in the fused switch.

    Only really need to be concerned if the SWA is going to be at 90C where it's terminated. If loft insulation etc is increasing temperature is there enough cable run between the insulation and the terminations to dissipate the heat.

    Most EV' charge points end up being connected to a seperate DB close to the incoming supply, tails split in henley blocks inside the meter cabinet. All depends on where the EV charge point will be located. In general a separate DB aliviates thermal issues  with RCBO's over heating due to constant load and proximity of other loaded devices. Typical RCBO at full load dissipates 15 to 20 watts. 

    I have a similar issue to deal with on Friday. 10m run either under the plaster of a dot and dab wall or inside a ground floor ceiling. Whatever I end up doing will be better than the current situation with the DNO's cable running under the plaster board protected by a 315A fuse.

Reply
  • My thoughts

    I do a lot of work around Swindon, I would say 40% or more of the many new houses have standard  tails running through the fabric of the building without additional protection.

    If you are running the tails through the loft space, say clipped to beans or something, away from the ceiling below I wouldn't consider them buried in the fabric of the building to depth of less than 50mm. Inside a wall is at a depth of more than 50mm. 

    My understanding is that using SWA is so that nails etc come in to contact with the earthed armour and live conductor at the same time, SWA is never going to stop a nail or a screw, it will just go through a gap in the strands.If SWA is used (not sure RCD protection is required, need to check the regs). thinking logically if the cable is damaged fault current will be connected to the armour and not the person holding the drill. I would think the pragmatic approach is protection by a 100mA time delayed RCD, it's what I have done in the past anyway.

    If you can get conduit in, could you buy some 3mm thick capping from a steel merchant and use this instead, I am informed this is what some house builders do.

    Then I would have a switched fused isolator in a steel case, mounted in the meter cabinet, proteus is about the smallest I have found, then replaced the switch with the RCD. Get rid if the DNO's isolator switch as it's not required any more, SSEN have a policy where they allow registered electricians to break the fuse seals provided they replace them and apply a sticker with  their details to the fuse. EV installers end up cutting the seals on fuses in over 50% of installs, there is no way the DNO's can keep up.

    Tails from the meter to the fused switch, swa terminated in the fused switch.

    Only really need to be concerned if the SWA is going to be at 90C where it's terminated. If loft insulation etc is increasing temperature is there enough cable run between the insulation and the terminations to dissipate the heat.

    Most EV' charge points end up being connected to a seperate DB close to the incoming supply, tails split in henley blocks inside the meter cabinet. All depends on where the EV charge point will be located. In general a separate DB aliviates thermal issues  with RCBO's over heating due to constant load and proximity of other loaded devices. Typical RCBO at full load dissipates 15 to 20 watts. 

    I have a similar issue to deal with on Friday. 10m run either under the plaster of a dot and dab wall or inside a ground floor ceiling. Whatever I end up doing will be better than the current situation with the DNO's cable running under the plaster board protected by a 315A fuse.

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