So no bunsen burners, and don't even mention nitrogen triiodide! It is a wonder how we survived without goggles and ear defenders.

I suppose that my point is that society seems to have become more risk-averse for its own good.

Chris Pearson said:

no bunsen burners

Bunsen burners are fine. Section 3.1.3:

"3.1.3 Laboratories and technology rooms
Science laboratories and preparation rooms, and some design technology areas, are commonly fitted with gas supplies. Advice is given in the Institute of Gas Engineers 2004 publication UP11 Gas installations for educational establishments and IM/25 (ref). Each laboratory should be fitted with a lockable isolating valve to enable gas supplies to gas taps on benches to be shut off at the end of the day."

Which seems perfectly sensible advice.

As I'll have mentioned before, I used to be a school health and safety governor. In the 9 years I was one I don't remember a single occasion when I had to stop a teacher doing what they wanted to do due to either legislation or guidance. (For example for several years I taught every 10 year old child in that school how to solder. They loved it.) I certainly did come across other schools where all sorts of activities were restricted, but that was always down to the local management team rules, not the legislation or guidance. 

In my experience the problem is that very few people in education know how to do decent risk assessments. So they just don't do the activity. And that is sad and unnecessary. The answer is to train (particularly) school management teams in how to do H&S properly...

Andy Millar said:

Each laboratory should be fitted with a lockable isolating valve to enable gas supplies to gas taps on benches to be shut off at the end of the day.

Yes, but everybody has gone home, so what is the risk other than school burning down overnight?

(At which point, we can all have a sing-along:

Build a bonfire, build a bonfire,
Put the teachers on the top,
Put the prefects in the middle,
And burn the blooming lot.)

Andy Millar said:

For example for several years I taught every 10 year old child in that school how to solder.

Ah, but was there any lead in it?

I assume that you mean electrical soldering, but I guess that pipes are not very different.

the problem is that very few people in education know how to do decent risk assessments. So they just don't do the activity.

And I spend quite a lot of time with exactly this problem in Scouting - the obstacle is not legislation or even the association policy, but risk averse parents and younger leaders who have not had the uninhibited upbringing those of us born in the late 60s enjoyed that allows a cool and more realistic assessment of what is really the main danger and how to avoid it. The solution is almost never more paperwork.

For what it is worth, when teaching kids to solder in small quantities there is an argument for leaded solder - the dominant risk to them unless they are compulsive finger lickers, is inhaling  the fumes from the flux - as the unleaded solders tend to be far less 'wetting' the fluxes are correspondingly more aggressive and the fumes more nasty.

Ideally a well ventilated place and a regime of compulsory hand washing are the key mitigation factors, That and the briefing they get before they start about not eating the solder, deliberately breathing in the smoke or holding the hot ends of things. Oddly, they almost never burn themselves while soldering, which is the thing most folk seem to worry about.

With the right approach, the use of gas bottles, cookers and lights, cooking on fire, skinning and preparing your own dinner etc are all in the reach of a sensible 13 year old.

And somewhere I have a thing with 2 forks attached to a block of wood that can be made to come live to demonstrate the effect of 230V on hot dog  sausages, pickled gherkins etc. as a ' if you were stupid with the mains, this could be you' demo that usually raises an 'ooh'

It does  have both a key switch and a push button to make it go...

Mike,

the problem is that very few people in education know how to do decent risk assessments. So they just don't do the activity.

And I spend quite a lot of time with exactly this problem in Scouting - the obstacle is not legislation or even the association policy, but risk averse parents and younger leaders who have not had the uninhibited upbringing those of us born in the late 60s enjoyed that allows a cool and more realistic assessment of what is really the main danger and how to avoid it. The solution is almost never more paperwork.

For what it is worth, when teaching kids to solder in small quantities there is an argument for leaded solder - the dominant risk to them unless they are compulsive finger lickers, is inhaling  the fumes from the flux - as the unleaded solders tend to be far less 'wetting' the fluxes are correspondingly more aggressive and the fumes more nasty.

Ideally a well ventilated place and a regime of compulsory hand washing are the key mitigation factors, That and the briefing they get before they start about not eating the solder, deliberately breathing in the smoke or holding the hot ends of things. Oddly, they almost never burn themselves while soldering, which is the thing most folk seem to worry about.

With the right approach, the use of gas bottles, cookers and lights, cooking on fire, skinning and preparing your own dinner etc are all in the reach of a sensible 13 year old.

And somewhere I have a thing with 2 forks attached to a block of wood that can be made to come live to demonstrate the effect of 230V on hot dog  sausages, pickled gherkins etc. as a ' if you were stupid with the mains, this could be you' demo that usually raises an 'ooh'

It does  have both a key switch and a push button to make it go...

Mike,