Shall we discuss the proposed changes in this discussion?
• Stationary Secondary Batteries
• New requirements and restructuring for Medical Locations
• A new section on Functional-Equipotential-Bonding for Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Equipment and Systems
• Clarification regarding commercial protected escape routes
• Conductor classes
• Load curtailment
• Firefighters’ switches
• Low voltage generating sets
• Power over Ethernet (PoE)
• Energy efficiency and functional earthing
• An update to ‘Swimming Pools and Other Basins’
• New requirements for camping and caravan parks
• A restructuring of the guidance around Electrical Installation Condition Reports (EICRs)
I am particularly curious about the changes in medical locations. It seems Paul Harris will need to prepare a second edition.

A lot of this has already been out for public comment in the UK as part of international work and ought to be no surprise?

• Stationary Secondary Batteries
• New requirements and restructuring for Medical Locations
• A new section on Functional-Equipotential-Bonding for Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Equipment and Systems
• Power over Ethernet (PoE)
• Energy efficiency and functional earthing

A lot of this has already been out for public comment in the UK as part of international work and ought to be no surprise?

• Stationary Secondary Batteries
• New requirements and restructuring for Medical Locations
• A new section on Functional-Equipotential-Bonding for Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Equipment and Systems
• Power over Ethernet (PoE)
• Energy efficiency and functional earthing

Morning Graham,

out for public comment in the UK ..... ought to be no surprise?

I think you are assuming that everyone in the electrical world is as connected to the world of the standards writers as you are, and based on recent conversations, including with a NIC assessor, as well as more or less normal practicing electricians, (for some value of  'normal' that has its usual meaning for electricians) I also think this is not the case.

Very few electricians seem to know there actually is a process for looking at the DPC copies of documents, and that they can and perhaps even should comment.  For many it seems that the first inkling something is being discussed  is when a new AMD or COP lands and they are asked to fork out for it. I don't know about you, but at that point more than once I have found myself in the odd position of explaining the thinking behind changes to rules regarding stuff I don't do for a living to those who actually do.

The audience on this forum is a little odd, and some are well connected both in terms of who they know and the level of tech-savvy, and process awareness, while others have just popped in for one question.  - this level of interconnection is not however the norm, and there are more folk who read this forum and don't ever join in - the noses on the glass looking in as it were.

It is also the reason I often quote a line or two of the relevant text, rather than just the reference or reg number, so that those who have not committed their library  to memory still know what is being discussed.

Anyway, this is only a mild chitter, but please realise that some of your readers may not be as 'with it' in the development process as you imagine, and may indeed not know what has been internationally discussed already (or that may be just me of course )!

Further, I see every reason for those of us that wish to,  to discuss it here - after all, if not here then where would be better? (and if I get involved I may quote very small sections as permitted under copyright law for the purposes of education and criticism, and arguably for the greater good of getting a better standard )

regards, and not intending to ruffle feathers too much,

Mike.

I agree. I wasn’t aware until a received the IET email showing the list of proposed changes. I certainly don’t know any of the details. 

mapj1 said:

Morning Graham,

out for public comment in the UK ..... ought to be no surprise?

I was being very flippant ...and in no small way divisive ... with the statement!

I do appreciate exactly what you have said.

It is one of my roles to promote the standard and help bring wider understanding of how it is developed.

The purpose of my seemingly ill-conceived comment was, in fact, to wider the discussion and open up fully and clearly, that there is a 'process behind the process' where, as part of Eurpoean Harmonization, the UK were 'signed up' to international development work, and mandated to take on board what comes from that, unless we sort it out at the time it's being developed.

The IET, at least, does NOT hide this, and in fact published the following article by Steven Devine in Wiring Matters a few years back to explain the process: https://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2019/77-september-2019/setting-the-standard/

This process has not changed due to BREXIT, and a couple of years back, the government signed us up to continuing with harmonization of standards with CENELEC.

It is the case, that if a change is in Amendment 4 has been agreed in an HD (CENELEC harmonized document), which has previously been out for DPC in the UK, any comments on those areas that propose to change the technical intent of the HD need to wait until work is done in the future on the HD ... that is, unless there is a real safety or compatibility issue in which case we can open that up and if necessary request particular national conditions for the UK.

Hope this makes sense, happy to answer any questions about the process.

mapj1 said:

Anyway, this is only a mild chitter, but please realise that some of your readers may not be as 'with it' in the development process as you imagine, and may indeed not know what has been internationally discussed already (or that may be just me of course )!

Further, I see every reason for those of us that wish to,  to discuss it here - after all, if not here then where would be better? (and if I get involved I may quote very small sections as permitted under copyright law for the purposes of education and criticism, and arguably for the greater good of getting a better standard )

Agreed

mapj1 said:

not intending to ruffle feathers too much,

Ruffle away ...

AMK said:

I wasn’t aware until a received the IET email showing the list of proposed changes. I certainly don’t know any of the details. 

There is a way to keep up with what's coming internationally, using the BSI standards development portal going forward, to check what's open for public comment under JPEL/64. We are always working on international standards that feed into BS 7671; the process is pretty much ongoing.

Thank you for the information. It would indeed be interesting to know what percentage of electricians actively engage with this. In practice, many of us tend to address changes as they are officially announced. However, the portal can certainly enhance our preparedness and compliance.

Based on recent conversations my guesstimate will be only single figure percents, maybe less than that - which is a shame as there is a disconnection risk between the way things are intended to work in standards world, and what happens in the one outside, and it is useful, in both directions, for there to be a flow of information - both to explain  why rules are being revised or considered, and at the same time to report back what problems and failure modes are happening and causing problems in actual practice.
 Canvassing opinions over a beer or two, yields what to me seem some really odd topics - Are there more nuisance RCD trips than real ones for example -it seems so when induction hobs are installed ;-)  Are folk still putting in split load units, yes apparently. Does everyone understand how to measure the resistance of an earth rod indeed or when we need one, apparently not all that well...
For those who don't know I've just spent a couple of weeks being far more hands-on than is  normal for me these days with the electrics of the Essex Jamboree- think 10000 Scouts and leaders in a field, lots of gensets lots of wire and a rather hassled team of us keeping the lights on and diesel flowing. But I like to take the chance to chat and see what folk are doing who work in other areas.
M.

It seems like quite a challenging situation. If you don’t mind sharing, what tasks you were assigned? Additionally, was the electrical installation at the event designated as a special location, possibly under Section 711?

as this could easily be a distraction I have put it here in another thread.

edited to actually link, I think.

Mike