Checking if 1.0mm cpc on 2.5mm cable is acceptable for EICR and where the limit is

Just want to check my calculations and conclusions are correct.
(been meaning to do this for a while)

Checking if a 2.5/1.0mm cpc is acceptable on a 32A  ring final for an EICR.

In this example looking at data for MK 32 A MCB MK data sheet

In the graphs I am assuming the horizontal is PSCC/PFC. In my example I have a PFC of 700A, therefore I2T = about 5000 A/sec

Energy withstand for 1.0cpc  K2S2 = 115*115 * 1.0 = 13,225

I2t needs to be less than K2S2

5000 < 13,225  therefore I am ok.

If I look at the graph and find I2t of 13,000 it looks like I am ok for pscc/pfc  up to about 3K, bit difficult to read with linear graduation on a log scale.

In reality the B type actually switches in 10msec with 5 * rated current rather than the 100msec typically used in calculations.


Parents
  • I would assume less than 1 kA, which is realistic and if it was more than that a BS3036 fuse board needs replacing anyway.

    Weren't BS 3036 CUs conditionally "deemed to comply" to 16kA even though the individual fuses might only be good to 1 or 2kA? (in the same was as we can use 3kA or 6kA MCBs and still claim 16kA compliance).

       - Andy.

  • Its more complex - the later all enclosed fuseboards probably were qualified, at least with the more modern company cut-outs,  but there were several revisions to the design of the enclosures for hot wire fuses over the years, from prewar  'bridge wire' designs  to the later wire threaded into  a ceramic tunnel, but all wood cases to the 1950s  wooden backless ones, To many eyes all re-wirable fuses are '3036  and equivalent. but I think that not all actually were, and some enclosures were  better than others at holding the bits in under stress.

    Certainly the wylex ceramic tube ones were quite capable of firing hot gas and molten metal out of the ends while being pushed in against a bad fault - which I'm sure was a technique  forbidden in the instructions, but equally so quite common I think; and cases and covers with scorch marks and a light deposit of copper and copper oxide were not unknown - presumably in areas with a higher PSSC. I don't think any designs actually fail to disconnect at any credible domestic fault level, its more how much dust pan and brush work is needed afterwards and if you need a new carrier, or at least the block for it.

    Light emery paper or a pan scrubber will remove the metal deposits.....

    The situation was not helped by some of the older supply cut outs also being re-wireable, and in some cases things like fuseholders being rewired with random non-fusewire 'to stop it blowing'. 

    Mike.

  • its more how much dust pan and brush work is needed afterwards and if you need a new carrier, or at least the block for it.

    Like this one, cover lying open, in a store bunged with combustible items;

    Of course, you can always make up your own standard fuse arrangement;

  • Well those are good shots for the rogues gallery !!

    That upper board is a super example  of what I meant by 'brige wire' design - complete with charred asbestos or possible glass mat pads, Still it looks like it was installed in the era of PVC insulation , so it maybe rated to some modern-ish spec. Though I note that it is the version where the heads of the screws in the removable holders are not well covered - later ones used dobs of epoxy, but at least one can tell if the fuse wire is failed without opening by a volt test on the exposed live bolt heads once the origina plug has fallen out !  I wonder if the conduit is tight enough  to give  decent Zs with no star washers anywhere. And its a metal box not a plastic one, so that part is to current regs, in a back to the future sort of way.

    The whole thing designed before HASWA, the asbestos regs,  and all the attendant safety stuff was a thing, and is shows rather.

    And that fuse is an advert for installing MCBs or RCBOs in all settings where folk have more enthusiasm than skill....

    But I bet  'its never given us any trouble until you fitted that new RCD thing'

    Mike

Reply
  • Well those are good shots for the rogues gallery !!

    That upper board is a super example  of what I meant by 'brige wire' design - complete with charred asbestos or possible glass mat pads, Still it looks like it was installed in the era of PVC insulation , so it maybe rated to some modern-ish spec. Though I note that it is the version where the heads of the screws in the removable holders are not well covered - later ones used dobs of epoxy, but at least one can tell if the fuse wire is failed without opening by a volt test on the exposed live bolt heads once the origina plug has fallen out !  I wonder if the conduit is tight enough  to give  decent Zs with no star washers anywhere. And its a metal box not a plastic one, so that part is to current regs, in a back to the future sort of way.

    The whole thing designed before HASWA, the asbestos regs,  and all the attendant safety stuff was a thing, and is shows rather.

    And that fuse is an advert for installing MCBs or RCBOs in all settings where folk have more enthusiasm than skill....

    But I bet  'its never given us any trouble until you fitted that new RCD thing'

    Mike

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