EICR Query

A domestic installation is partly wired using flexible cables. These flexible cables have been coded a C2 on a recent condition report, the inspector noting in section K of the report:

"Flexible cable has been used to wire installation which is a departure from BS EN 50565-1:2014".

However, 7671 permits the use of flexible cables in fixed wiring, as discussed in issue 95 of Wiring Matters. 

Replacing them seems pointless, but the code can't be negated, so how should this be handled in the remedial work?

Thanks.

Parents
  • "Flexible cable has been used to wire installation which is a departure from BS EN 50565-1:2014".

    However, 7671 permits the use of flexible cables in fixed wiring, as discussed in issue 95 of Wiring Matters. 

    Just because BS 7671 permits the use of flexible cables, it doesn't mean they are suitable for use everywhere and anywhere.

    Without further information (i.e. specific circumstances of the use of the cables), no-one can say whether the EICR coding is correct or not (although Code C2 is quite serious, one would assume it's a real problem??). Specifically, BS EN 50565-1:2014 says;

    • (4.4.5) Flexible cables shall not be used as fixed wiring unless they are contained in an enclosure affording mechanical protection, with the following two exceptions:
       - final connection to fixed equipment when the duty type of the cable is at least ordinary duty or higher;
       - fixed installations in temporary buildings when the duty type of the cable is heavy duty.
      But BS 7671 does not define 'fixed wiring', nor does BS EN 50565-1, and nor does IEC 60050 ... and 4.4.1 of BS EN  50565-1 requires flexible cables to be used to connect mobile equipment (is this 'fixed wiring' ... who knows?). To be fair, BS 7671 does define 'fixed equipment' (and since wiring is electrical equipment, I suppose that might do). Again, caravans seem OK wired in H03 and H05 ?
    • (4.4.6) Flexible cables shall not be installed in plaster
    •  (4.4.10) Thermoplastic covered cables shall not be used for welding, this includes both industrial arc welding and hobby welding.
      Although my arc welder came with a thermoplastic mains cable fitted ... so it's OK for the equipment, not the installation?
    • (4.4.11) Flexible thermoplastic cables are not suitable for permanent use outdoors.
      Although H05VV-F seems to be supplied with most caravans and motor homes and seems to do OK ... but I guess it's not "permanent"??
  • It looks easy enough to earth the switches - at least the CPCs have not been clipped at the ends of the sheaths.

    The cables may be satisfactory for lighting, but they look rather small. If you do not know the conductor size, it is difficult to say whether they are fit for purpose or not.

  •  (4.4.10) Thermoplastic covered cables shall not be used for welding, this includes both industrial arc welding and hobby welding.
    Although my arc welder came with a thermoplastic mains cable fitted ... so it's OK for the equipment, not the installation?

    Do the mean anything to do with welding (e.g. including the supply lead) or just the final connection to the electrode and workpiece? - e.g. what "welding cables" (e.g. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Welding_Cable/index.html ) would normally be used for.

      - Andy.

  • The flexible cables used for two socket ccts are detailed in the report as being 2.5mm2, each cct being on 16A CB's, with a 30mA RCCB as the main switch.

  • Do the mean anything to do with welding (e.g. including the supply lead) or just the final connection to the electrode and workpiece? - e.g. what "welding cables"

    The standard doesn't specify

  • The flexible cables used for two socket ccts are detailed in the report as being 2.5mm2, each cct being on 16A CB's, with a 30mA RCCB as the main switch.

    The installation method is not clear. If they are in plaster, clear non-conformance as stated (whether this is a C2 is up to the inspector).

    Similarly, if they are in a stud wall with thermal insulation, 2.5 sq mm flex might not meet the current carrying capacity for 16 A OCPD ... at least according to the tables in BS 7671 ... that doesn't appear to align with the information reported in earlier posts (although it still may well be the case).

  • Welding is a process of  taking Two  separate metal processes, and melting both of them The specific channel  , and power Supply lead should match for A/c Low voltage, low current, secondary Law voltage high current 

  • That may not be a problem, but they don't look that big.

    Wiring in flex rather than T&E seems very expensive, but perhaps that was all that there was in the van?

  • Welding is a process of  taking Two  separate metal processes, and melting both of them The specific channel  , and power Supply lead should match for A/c Low voltage, low current, secondary Law voltage high current 

    Agreed technically, but please could you show where the standard makes this distinction.

    However, it doesn't have to ... thermoplastic cables are susceptible to UV, which is generated during welding ... so isn't that what the requirement is on about ???

  • The flexible cables used for two socket ccts are detailed in the report as being 2.5mm2, each cct being on 16A CB's, with a 30mA RCCB as the main switch

    Which would normally be considered electrically fine, unless the flexible cable is in some way vulnerable to damage. (or if the approach to earthing is the same as it is at the lights - that would be a clear fail, but not on cable type.)

    An inspection cert without a name and contact info on it would be most unusual, and probably not recognized as valid in a legal sense.

    Assuming there is a name and contact info,  I'd give the outfit a call and ask them to call you to discuss it.

    Mike.

  • Which would normally be considered electrically fine, unless the flexible cable is in some way vulnerable to damage.

    Or there is thermal insulation in the wall ... noting also that flex has a slightly lower current-carrying capacity than equivalent csa rigid (solid or normal stranded) cables.

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  • Which would normally be considered electrically fine, unless the flexible cable is in some way vulnerable to damage.

    Or there is thermal insulation in the wall ... noting also that flex has a slightly lower current-carrying capacity than equivalent csa rigid (solid or normal stranded) cables.

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