Principles of selectivity between upstream fuses protecting a parallel conductor distrib circuit and the downstream fuses

Goodly morrow

Academic scenario:   a final circuit is protected by a 32A fuse/mcb and it is supplied by a distrib circuit that uses two parallel line conductors each protected by two 32A fuses

For selectivity,  if there is an overcurrent (overload or fault) on the final circuit near to the fuse,  can one 'simply' consider the distrib circuit fuses as one fuse (each summed as such)  ?

As there might not be 'selectivity' graphs for a 'summed' fuse/mcb arrangement,  what would one do ...  best ask the manufacturer ?

Thanks for any help in understanding, for my lacking brain.

Parents
  • This discussion is intriguing me, I’m not really understanding why you would install two MCBs to supply the same circuit with paralleled conductors rather than commoning them into one MCB.

    But if you must there is a third option, use a Double Pole MCB, so both legs of the circuit are isolated together, but terminated separately.

  • I’m not really understanding why you would install two MCBs to supply the same circuit with paralleled conductors rather than commoning them into one MCB.

    Mostly it's a matter of fault protection. For simplicity think of fuses to start with - generally a fuse of two or three times the cable rating will still provide fault protection to a conductor (even though it's way over for overload protection) - provided the loop impedance is suitable of course. Think of those OSG tables of Zs for various rated fuses and conductor sizes - typically towards the top/right there's a number of "NP" where the fuse has no chance of protecting that sized conductor against faults.

    So, making a few assumptions and generalizations like if the one fuse is something like the circuit rating and the parallel conductors add up to something similar (e.g 63A circuit and two 32A conductors in parallel), the more conductors in parallel you have, the smaller each of them is likely to be compared with the fuse - e.g. 4x 16A or 8x 8A.  The problem with faults if of course they can occur anywhere along a circuit, so where parallel conductors are insulated from each other (which they will be otherwise they'd be one stranded conductor, not parallel conductors), we could quite easily have a situation where just one of the parallel conductors has to carry (and withstand) pretty much the entire fault current. With 2 conductors in parallel, they're each likely to be at least half the fuse rating - so fault protection is pretty much guaranteed from a single device. With 3 conductors, 1/3rd of the fuse rating, it's getting a bit uncomfortable, 4 or 5 (with each conductor 1/4 or 1/5 the fuse rating) starts to look really dodgy, and beyond that lie dragons. Hence the idea of supplying a fault protection device for each conductor - which of course is sized match the conductor's withstand (or even two per conductor - one each end - since faults can be fed from both ends, as all the conductors are connected together at both ends and so opening the one at the supply end doesn't disconnect the fault...)

    MCBs are slightly different in their fault handling characteristics, there's a less direct relationship between rating and energy let-through, but still there's a minimum size conductor a give rating/type/make of MCB can protect - and if you keep dividing the conductor into more thinner ones, at some point you'll still hit that limit.

        - Andy.

Reply
  • I’m not really understanding why you would install two MCBs to supply the same circuit with paralleled conductors rather than commoning them into one MCB.

    Mostly it's a matter of fault protection. For simplicity think of fuses to start with - generally a fuse of two or three times the cable rating will still provide fault protection to a conductor (even though it's way over for overload protection) - provided the loop impedance is suitable of course. Think of those OSG tables of Zs for various rated fuses and conductor sizes - typically towards the top/right there's a number of "NP" where the fuse has no chance of protecting that sized conductor against faults.

    So, making a few assumptions and generalizations like if the one fuse is something like the circuit rating and the parallel conductors add up to something similar (e.g 63A circuit and two 32A conductors in parallel), the more conductors in parallel you have, the smaller each of them is likely to be compared with the fuse - e.g. 4x 16A or 8x 8A.  The problem with faults if of course they can occur anywhere along a circuit, so where parallel conductors are insulated from each other (which they will be otherwise they'd be one stranded conductor, not parallel conductors), we could quite easily have a situation where just one of the parallel conductors has to carry (and withstand) pretty much the entire fault current. With 2 conductors in parallel, they're each likely to be at least half the fuse rating - so fault protection is pretty much guaranteed from a single device. With 3 conductors, 1/3rd of the fuse rating, it's getting a bit uncomfortable, 4 or 5 (with each conductor 1/4 or 1/5 the fuse rating) starts to look really dodgy, and beyond that lie dragons. Hence the idea of supplying a fault protection device for each conductor - which of course is sized match the conductor's withstand (or even two per conductor - one each end - since faults can be fed from both ends, as all the conductors are connected together at both ends and so opening the one at the supply end doesn't disconnect the fault...)

    MCBs are slightly different in their fault handling characteristics, there's a less direct relationship between rating and energy let-through, but still there's a minimum size conductor a give rating/type/make of MCB can protect - and if you keep dividing the conductor into more thinner ones, at some point you'll still hit that limit.

        - Andy.

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