I can foresee many forsaking all of this, purchasing the kit and just reading the manufacturer's instructions/data sheets. It is already happening in many sectors which have become overburdened with regulatory requirements. Actions always have equal but opposite reactions.

whjohnson said:

I can foresee many forsaking all of this, purchasing the kit and just reading the manufacturer's instructions/data sheets. It is already happening in many sectors which have become overburdened with regulatory requirements. Actions always have equal but opposite reactions.

Yes, I am in total agreement with that. Formal training is not always necessary, lots of excellent stuff on YouTube, for example, that can be digested at leisure. One thing is for sure, people with the formal qualifications associated with electrical installation activities are not necessarily competent. 
But the law requires operatives to be competent. That can be a significant issue for employers. So the question is, how does an employer demonstrate that his employee has the necessary SKE to claim competence? I imagine that if something should result in injury, HSE or the courts would see training with accredited qualification stitched on to the basic L3 NVQ as a tad more substantial in terms of establishing appropriate competence than a claim to have read the manufactures instructions and watched a few YouTube vids. 

whjohnson said:

I can foresee many forsaking all of this, purchasing the kit and just reading the manufacturer's instructions/data sheets. It is already happening in many sectors which have become overburdened with regulatory requirements. Actions always have equal but opposite reactions.

Yes, I am in total agreement with that. Formal training is not always necessary, lots of excellent stuff on YouTube, for example, that can be digested at leisure. One thing is for sure, people with the formal qualifications associated with electrical installation activities are not necessarily competent. 
But the law requires operatives to be competent. That can be a significant issue for employers. So the question is, how does an employer demonstrate that his employee has the necessary SKE to claim competence? I imagine that if something should result in injury, HSE or the courts would see training with accredited qualification stitched on to the basic L3 NVQ as a tad more substantial in terms of establishing appropriate competence than a claim to have read the manufactures instructions and watched a few YouTube vids. 

Agree, but all the 'tickets' in the world wouldn't prevent prosecution for bad workmanship. I think the self employed have more to lose than eligibility for employment by a third party and would therefore be a little more conscientious in turning out their end product. I think the more you pile costs on by requiring all kinds of superfluous 'qualifications' the less likely your target will be to take them up. I have gotten by simply by buying successive 'commentaries' on the whatever-edition of the wiring regs post-publication rather than continuously sitting a whole C&G exam every couple of years. I stopped at the 16th ed once I realised that nothing much changed, and what did change didn't really affect the type of work I did. If I had a query I would just read up on the latest commentary.

. Although I haven't looked for a couple of years, there seems to be a dearth of vacancies for electricians in my particular area, with many former large industrial employers being forced out of business by the cost of energy. Even SMEs are now looking at packing it in early due to rising energy prices.. A separate issue I know, but it reinforces my view that going for all of the latest quaifications at the age of 63 is something of a waste of both time and money.

lyledunn said:

One thing is for sure, people with the formal qualifications associated with electrical installation activities are not necessarily competent.

Agreed. Although somebody who does annual appraisal is more likely to be so.

In my work, I get appraised every 3 years, but you can bet your bottom dollar that my preparation for that day's work is very thorough.

whjohnson said:

A separate issue I know, but it reinforces my view that going for all of the latest quaifications at the age of 63 is something of a waste of both time and money.

4 more years! Make electrical installation great again. More seriously, if your work is good, your customers will keep giving you business. I suspect that many have some idea whether work is good or not.

I am quite keen to see the renovations at Notre Dame de Paris. There would appear to be around 2,000 skilled and competent tradesmen and women in France. Problem is finding the good ones.

Clearly this is a closed shop  for some electricians and us engineers are barred for some reason? Probaly another money making scheme by the so called comptent person schemes? 

JP