The use of SY cable in Lift installations

Mike, you should only use SY,YY,CY cable for control, not power circuits as the insulation is substandard and not to any standard at all

What's your thinking behind that? Does a 230V control circuit require lesser insulation than a 230V power circuit?

   - Andy.

David,

Where are you getting your information? Do you have any references?

I had a look at one of our local suppliers to see what they said:

1964724_1_eng_tds.pdf

This shows that the materials are in accordance with British Standards. In the construction tables the wall thicknesses look reasonable for 300/500V (where is a higher rating required in normal use?)

Is this a real problem?

Roger,

without knowing the cable you have the table for, you need to get the manufacturers data, and they will say "for control functions" they don't say for Power circuits to carry load, take a look at Elland cables and the docs online for instance, then theirs BS7671 telling all not to use for power circuits, without going into lots for BS EN numbers and checking everything, why would anyone install a cable that may not comply? when there are many others available? it doesn't make sense accepting this risk

Also in the table you have above, the first line - its designed for control uses, but some electricians use it for others things!!!! 

yes it does, a control, circuit generally doers not carry load consistently, and the manufacturers of the said cable say its for Control functions 

mapj1 said:

The copper cores are of course made to a standard, just not one invented here, and knowledge of the stranding and copper purity from that allows those skilled in the art to deduce a resistance and a voltage drop- tables in OSG or '7671 are for those who can't, but those who can, are allowed to.

The copper cores are usually quoted to BS EN 60228,  which is the same standard used in most, if not all, cables used in BS 7671.

The actual issue with CY/SY/YY cables is the fact that other elements of the cable construction are NOT documented in a cable constructional standard (in the UK or in the DIN/VDE standard often quoted for these cable types). The constructional standard determines insulation type and thickness, layup, and sheathing type, and, for CY and SY types, % coverage of the copper (CY) or steel (SY) screen. The actual construction affects voltage drop as well as current-carrying capacity, and effectiveness of the screen for EMC purposes.

The IET On-Site Guide provides guidance on what to check for when deciding to use CY/SY/YY cables (see Section 7.9, page 100, of the 2022 version).

A final issue, is to make sure you get the right kind of CY/SY/YY cable ... some are only suitable for use as auxiliary cables and these are not suitable for power supplies/power circuits.

I am not sure where this ‘control cable’ comes from, maybe from the European manufacturers.

The Lapp Cable (German manufacturer of SY type cables) website states:

“Different conductor cross-sections and numbers of cores are required depending on the intended use.

Most cables for standard applications are at least two-wire and start at 0.5 mm2. For control cables (core identification is usually by numbers), the number of cores can be 50 or more. The maximum conductor cross-section is often 2.5 mm2, but can be higher depending on the type. Power cables (core identification is typically by colour) can also be found in this product group with four cores with a conductor cross-section of up to 240 mm2.”

https://e.lapp.com/apac/c/cables-and-wires/power-and-control-cables/cables-for-standard-applications/pdm_atr_parent_product_filter-olflexr_classic_110_sy

Various voltage ratings are also offered:

“Within the product group, choose between cables with 300/500 V, 450/750 V or 0.6/1 kV.” (from the same web page).

The Olflex cable are also supplied with CE and UKCA certification:

 PDF

PDF

Here under documentation:

https://e.lapp.com/apac/p/cables-for-standard-applications/oelflex-classic-110-sy-4g1-5-1125304

People may be using the wrong versions of SY cables, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the product.

I tend to think there are more things wrong with the UK wiring standards:

       Installation cable with uninsulated reduced size cpcs.

       Ring final circuits which allow overloading of cables.

       BS 1363 fused plugs which are both prone to overheating and are a mechanical hazard in several ways.

No UK approved body has tested or accepted the UKCA