Modifying Ring with no RCD Present on BS3036 CU & MEIWC Question

Hi all. Second year apprentice still learning the ropes so just a few things to clarify.

I've got a two part question today, but first some context: I've just modified the ring final circuit in my brother's house. There is a ring where the previous house owner had cut into the ring and spurred off a double socket. Something (I think) he's quite entitled to do assuming he only does it the once on the entire ring (although this would be different if he'd spurred from a socket). Anyway, I've since removed that spur and extended the ring into two double sockets, effectively removing the JB for the spur and just having a singular joint extending the new leg into the outgoing leg to the rest of the living room. I hate joints all together, but this was an unavoidable one.

Question time -

  1. Whenever I've been working on a job under my supervisor, to my knowledge he's never issued a MEIWC for alterations to a circuit, including swapping over an RCD (when required e.g. if the function test failed). I was under the impression this was a mandatory requirement. Am I wrong? If it is a mandatory requirement, I plan on issuing said certificate with the approval of my supervisor once it's had a secondary opinion on my test results which I've recorded.
  2. This second question is a bit more problematic. The installation isn't 18th edition which is quite alright, but the CU is BS3036 fuses with no RCD present on any circuit, nor incoming to protect the full board. Now obviously I've modified the circuit, plus being the last man in the board, I'm not sure what the legal requirements are here. I'm hearing mixed sources saying because it's not an 18th edition install, RCDs are not a requirement but because I've altered the circuit, then it is? What's the stance of the community on this one? I've recommended (stressed) that he should upgrade the board, but I don't think he fully grasps the importance of it which is fine as I don't expect him to.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks all.

Parents
  • I was under the impression this was a mandatory requirement. Am I wrong?

    There is no statutory (i.e. legal) requirement, but it is good practice. An MEIWC can be issued for anything less than a new circuit - see the top of page 514 in the Big Brown Book.

    I'm hearing mixed sources saying because it's not an 18th edition install, RCDs are not a requirement but because I've altered the circuit, then it is?

    I am not sure that I entirely agree with Andy. Your responsibility is to ensure that your work is to an appropriate standard. One way of doing that is to demonstrate that it complies with the current edition of BS 7671. However, where does it end? If you replace a broken socket outlet in this installation, does it have to have RCD protection? I think not. The replacement must be safer than the existing socket.

    I've just modified the ring final circuit in my brother's house.
    I've recommended (stressed) that he should upgrade the board, but I don't think he fully grasps the importance of it which is fine as I don't expect him to.

    I have never lived in a house with an 18th Edition installation and I have lived long enough to collect my State Pension. If the ancient installation is in good condition, all well and good.

    Joseph, your approach fills me with confidence. You seem to be thoughtful and have asked the right questions. Well done!

Reply
  • I was under the impression this was a mandatory requirement. Am I wrong?

    There is no statutory (i.e. legal) requirement, but it is good practice. An MEIWC can be issued for anything less than a new circuit - see the top of page 514 in the Big Brown Book.

    I'm hearing mixed sources saying because it's not an 18th edition install, RCDs are not a requirement but because I've altered the circuit, then it is?

    I am not sure that I entirely agree with Andy. Your responsibility is to ensure that your work is to an appropriate standard. One way of doing that is to demonstrate that it complies with the current edition of BS 7671. However, where does it end? If you replace a broken socket outlet in this installation, does it have to have RCD protection? I think not. The replacement must be safer than the existing socket.

    I've just modified the ring final circuit in my brother's house.
    I've recommended (stressed) that he should upgrade the board, but I don't think he fully grasps the importance of it which is fine as I don't expect him to.

    I have never lived in a house with an 18th Edition installation and I have lived long enough to collect my State Pension. If the ancient installation is in good condition, all well and good.

    Joseph, your approach fills me with confidence. You seem to be thoughtful and have asked the right questions. Well done!

Children
  • Hi Chris, thank you for your reply. Apologies in the late reply back, EngX has been really playing up this past week.

    There is no statutory (i.e. legal) requirement, but it is good practice

    I'll bare that in mind for my work moving forward. I suppose it's up to my supervisor in that case, but I've always been told that MW is important.

    However, where does it end?

    This is part of my concern, too. Because of my addition of an extra socket, I've therefore modified the circuit being the last person to work on the CU and on that circuit, therefore the legal requirement falls to me. The installation has now become a mix of 18th edition and whenever-the-house-was-built edition. I've advised the "customer" (my brother) that he needs to do something about upgrading the CU or at the very least, install an RCCB/RCD but I know full well that won't get done. It'll just be another expense to him, but can you blame him (or anyone for that matter)?

    I have never lived in a house with an 18th Edition installation and I have lived long enough to collect my State Pension. If the ancient installation is in good condition, all well and good.

    Joseph, your approach fills me with confidence. You seem to be thoughtful and have asked the right questions. Well done!

    Well that's good to know. Maybe I'll be able to retire when I'm 80... maybe. :P

    And thanks for the compliment, Chris. To me this trade is just about being proactive, asking the right questions, and giving a damn about your workmanship.