Retro marking cables in the German electrical Installation industry

Hi Both, appreciate the feedback.  The reading i undertook certainly levels out with your collective input.  But, the elephant in the room for me, away from the guardianship of the regulations, is the waste that this will generate.  As copper cable generally has stable conductive properties for many years, as long as the cable has not been under any due stress and has been free of chemical contamination. 

We talk about sustainability being the most important thing in our lives now, but it seems as though this one has been invited to the party...

Are you adding a new CPC, or a new neutral to effect the TNC-s conversion, and what is the colour of the existing PEN.
If it was in the UK one might be labelling it up as a known but non-dangerous exception to current rules in a legacy installation. (as a lot of older UK intake rooms and installations generally have something there that would not meet current practice ).
Germany used to have similar regulatory options, that allowed old installations to be kept running if safe even if not complaint to latest rules does it not any more ?
Mike.

mapj1 said:

If it was in the UK one might be labelling it up as a known but non-dangerous exception to current rules in a legacy installation. (

It depends on whether you take the repurposing of a green-and-yellow marked conductor as a live conductor to be a 'non-dangerous exception' from a safe working practices perspective.

Putting standards aside, I wouldn't want to be in a position of trying to justify the rights and wrongs of it in the case that someone got hurt afterwards, say if they mistook the purpose of the conductor.

I don't think this is a simple discussion.

Daniel Hardy said:

is the waste that this will generate. 

I agree this is a difficult discussion, the ethics of waste vs the ethics of duty of care for safety, and the cost of re-wiring replacement vs cost element in "so far as is reasonably practicable" in safety.

The operator of the installation will be responsible for ongoing safety ... what is their view?

I agree, especiall as we cannot see it, though I come from the direction that it is presumably currently functioning as a CPC, (as part of its PEN role) and it is green and yellow. Perhaps one should be adding a blue neutral alongside rather than a new Green yellow earth - but the installation is already a little odd in  having a blue third phase - with that, I'd have expected to see an old German style red earth in that case, though there should not be too much of that left these days, - or a second black, or the modern grey/white.

Mike.

PS as the German wiring  colour history is quite different to ours. Bis == until, siet ==since
rot red, grau grey, Schwarz black , Blau and braun are more or less phonetic.

Blue is not an official phase colour since 1965 - though like in the UK  there would be some over-run of projects already started.

I agree, especiall as we cannot see it, though I come from the direction that it is presumably currently functioning as a CPC, (as part of its PEN role) and it is green and yellow. Perhaps one should be adding a blue neutral alongside rather than a new Green yellow earth - but the installation is already a little odd in  having a blue third phase - with that, I'd have expected to see an old German style red earth in that case, though there should not be too much of that left these days, - or a second black, or the modern grey/white.

Mike.

PS as the German wiring  colour history is quite different to ours. Bis == until, siet ==since
rot red, grau grey, Schwarz black , Blau and braun are more or less phonetic.

Blue is not an official phase colour since 1965 - though like in the UK  there would be some over-run of projects already started.

mapj1 said:

but the installation is already a little odd in  having a blue third phase - with that, I'd have expected to see an old German style red earth in that case

The OP's top thread said "brown,black,blue being the phase wires and green/yellow" - which almost sounds like they're used fairly modern (harmonized) 4-core cables - I think our 4-coure flexes were brown/black/blue/gy before we got grey introduced with the latest round of harmonization at which point I think they turned brown/black/grey/g-y.

   - Andy.

but its not actually any of the VDE recognized colour schemes ;-)

But probably correct.
I have always been very wary of colours on the continent, especially red, and not very trusting of them here either..

Worst ever was a colleagues  Greek wired 3 phase pump. Brown phase 1, blue phase 2, green yellow phase 3.... can we guess what happened here !
M.