What derating table do I use for multicore armoured thermosetting cable in insulation.

Taking submain through loft of a house, I think it only needs to be rated at 60 amps, 80 amps would be nice. But ideally don't want to be fighting with 25mm swa cable, I have found out the hard way that it makes life very difficult, getting it through the house and also routing inside a fused switch.

At the moment thinking that buried in insulation a 16mm 3 core cable would probably have a capacity of about 60 amps. Looks like I will have to clip to batons screwed on to roof beams to keep the cable clear of insulation, still easier than fighting with 25mm cable.


A 16mm 70 deg C thermoplastic cable is rated at 57 amps with reference method 100. I have seen plenty of domestic consumer units supplied with 16mm twin and earth and never seen any heat issues.

 Therefore thinking 16mm swa would be good enough, your thoughts.

Parents
  • More questions I'm afraid..

    Method 100 - that's only good for insulation of up to 100mm (fluffy stuff)- while 300mm is generally needed to meet current building regs in lofts - how much is actually there? (or could reasonably be added during the lifetime of the installation?)

    If you're in a small space just below the roof surface, with little opportunity for heat (from solar gain on the roof) to escape into the living space, is a 30 degree ambient plausible?

    What's the CU on the end of this cable going to be supplying? Traditional CUs rarely had to carry much more than 10A for most of their lives, with relatively short durations at higher currents (maybe 20A or 30A for an hour or so when cooking, or 50A when showering but only for a few minutes at a time) - so large cables barely had the chance to heat up before the loads dropped down again. Only ones supplying off peak heating were pushed closer to their capacity. While renovating my house I had everything, including an electric cooker and a fan heater to keep warm, running off an old 30A fuse without any problems at all. Some modern loads - EVs or heatpumps, or other long hour loads (immersion heater perhaps) might be challenging, but if it's just a few sockets and lights, maybe the circuit could be rated a lot lower?

    Using 90 degree rated cable and allowing to run over 70 degrees in the loft - i.e. well away from terminations - might be one approach.

       - Andy.

Reply
  • More questions I'm afraid..

    Method 100 - that's only good for insulation of up to 100mm (fluffy stuff)- while 300mm is generally needed to meet current building regs in lofts - how much is actually there? (or could reasonably be added during the lifetime of the installation?)

    If you're in a small space just below the roof surface, with little opportunity for heat (from solar gain on the roof) to escape into the living space, is a 30 degree ambient plausible?

    What's the CU on the end of this cable going to be supplying? Traditional CUs rarely had to carry much more than 10A for most of their lives, with relatively short durations at higher currents (maybe 20A or 30A for an hour or so when cooking, or 50A when showering but only for a few minutes at a time) - so large cables barely had the chance to heat up before the loads dropped down again. Only ones supplying off peak heating were pushed closer to their capacity. While renovating my house I had everything, including an electric cooker and a fan heater to keep warm, running off an old 30A fuse without any problems at all. Some modern loads - EVs or heatpumps, or other long hour loads (immersion heater perhaps) might be challenging, but if it's just a few sockets and lights, maybe the circuit could be rated a lot lower?

    Using 90 degree rated cable and allowing to run over 70 degrees in the loft - i.e. well away from terminations - might be one approach.

       - Andy.

Children
  • The main load on the cable will be all the normal stuff you will find in a kitchen and utility, hob, oven, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer. Plus sockets in lounge and a coupe of bedrooms. 

    Wouldn't be surprised with a double oven in the future and fairly big hob. If there was an EV I would expect it to be connected via a different DB. It's a large house from the 1800's, heat pump technology needs to get much better for it to be a practical solution.

    If heat pump or EV charge point is to be installed, they have a bigger issue that they are on a looped supply, new supply would probably enter at rear of property on overhead lines and current supply head is at front of property. It's actually tempting to ask for permission to connect an EV now to force unlooping, then board with all the heavy loads would probably be near where the supply enters the house and what would then be the sub board would just be powering a few bedrooms, office and hallways. But that would put the project back a couple of months, which is far from ideal.

    Neighbour probably won't be impressed because the DNO will discover that their supply cable is running from back to front of his property, concealed in the fabric of the building.

    Before you ask I don't know what size the main supply fuse is at this point, now that I know it's looped 60A would be my guess.