There’s debate about exposed basic insulation in meter cupboards being satisfactory or not? Industry guidance (WRAG) say it’s satisfactory if the door’s in good shape, what’s people views on this ?
There’s debate about exposed basic insulation in meter cupboards being satisfactory or not? Industry guidance (WRAG) say it’s satisfactory if the door’s in good shape, what’s people views on this ?
as mentioned previously ... page 20 and page 24 of this document offers an opinion, re: 'supply' ... does it help in relation to the OP title or question
www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/.../best_practice-guide-4_issue-7-2.pdf
I was told in no uncertain terms that the enclosure belongs to whichever fitted it,
Presumably a retro-fitted surface mounted meter box, if the DNO fitted it? Recessed ones are usually fitted by a builder on behalf of the householder - either during initial house construction or subsequently.
No because it was their enclosure.
The more usual explanation is that the conditions of supply/contract requires the householder to provide sufficient space for the DNO & supplier's equipment on the premises - and that leaves no spare space in a standard meter box.
and should be beyond the scope of BS7671
Unless part of the BS 7671 installation is replying on it for its own safety. We don't skip checking Ze on account of it's the DNO's responsibility.
- Andy.
No because it was their enclosure.
The more usual explanation is that the conditions of supply/contract requires the householder to provide sufficient space for the DNO & supplier's equipment on the premises - and that leaves no spare space in a standard meter box.
Agreed. The contract for the installation process should specify who owns what.
Clearly, the price will include the value of the cabinet (or back-board), service head, tails, and isolator (if fitted). If I have paid for them, and if they are attached to my wall, they are mine unless otherwise stated.
The meter belongs to the supplier. It's cost, and the cost of fitting it presumably comes out of the standing charge/price per unit.
Yes but we check Ze at the consumer's equipment (usually the consumer unit, since the rest is inaccessable) and not the DNO's. If you want to make a case then maybe the DNOs should be tasked with checking Ze and other charactoristics at all of their equiopment at each consumer's installtion annuall, or at least at every meter change. I simply don't see why we should undertaake responsibility for inspecting something which, other than reporting back, we can do nothing about.
I disagree. The DNO/DSO/MO use double insulated (or sheathed and insulated) cable up to the service fuse, then the same principal between the fuse carrier and the meter. Some have even started to use a kind of strain relief boot / Shrinkage boot that also identifies the cable as L1/L2/L3 or N. It probably provides protection, insulation, and environmental sealing. So what changes when the energy comes out of the customer side of the electricity meter? Why is single insulation not accepted before the meter but is OK after the meter?
maybe the DNOs should be tasked with checking Ze
They already are.
Reg 28 of ESQCR 2002:
28. A distributor shall provide, in respect of any existing or proposed consumer’s installation which is connected or is to be connected to his network, to any person who can show a reasonable cause for requiring the information, a written statement of—
...
(b) for low voltage connections, the maximum earth loop impedance of the earth fault path outside the installation; ...
Why is single insulation not accepted before the meter but is OK after the meter?
Because one side is done to ESQCR and the supplier's own rules, and the other side is done to BS7671.
So if you come across something like the image below, you shall except this is to BS 7671 standards.
My engineering judgement in this case is that ESQCR is correct with having double insulation throughout and BS7671 and WRAG, NICEIC are wrong. Thus it would be prudent for the teams at ESQCR, WRAG and NICEIC have a discussion to debate the technical merits of single insulated cable in a meter cupboard/cabinet.
Remember that BS7671 allows deviations from BS 7671 (the IET Wiring Regulations) are called "intended departures" and require a formal declaration by the designer on the electrical certificate, ensuring the installation's safety remains at least as high as if the regulations were fully followed. These departures, justified by special conditions or national requirements, must be documented and not taken lightly, with the responsibility falling on the designer to prove the safety of the modified installation.
Therefore meeting ESQCR requirements for double insulation can trump BS7671 in this instance
Lets hope this was discussed at the recent meeting in
And the subsequent meeting in of the National Federation of Engineers for Electrical Safety conference. That I understand one of the topics was
Verification of electrical installations (covering inspection, testing and certification
So if you come across something like the image below, you shall except this is to BS 7671 standards.
If that setup has become commonplace, I am rather appalled.
I find it difficult to see how the SWA left dangling complies with 134.1.1.
This chimes well with the thread concerning the cable under the car park. One must assume that the DNO is content to protect the SWA from overload and fault current with the fuse in the service head. So, when completing an EICR, how would the electrician know this; and if the DNO is not content, does that merit a C2?
This would be very tricky to rectify. I think that it needs a second cabinet adjacent to this one with some form of ducting for the consumer's tails. It would house a switch-fuse. The real problem, however, might be getting the SWA into the second cabinet.
I would kick it back to the designer and installer as a C2.
BS 7671 Regulation 134.1.1 requires that all electrical installations be carried out by skilled persons using proper materials, with electrical equipment installed according to the manufacturer's instructions to ensure the safety and performance of the installation. This regulation emphasizes the importance of both qualified workmanship and adherence to manufacturer guidance for compliance and safety
Requires proper termination and cable support
I would kick it back to the designer and installer as a C2.
BS 7671 Regulation 134.1.1 requires that all electrical installations be carried out by skilled persons using proper materials, with electrical equipment installed according to the manufacturer's instructions to ensure the safety and performance of the installation. This regulation emphasizes the importance of both qualified workmanship and adherence to manufacturer guidance for compliance and safety
Requires proper termination and cable support
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