Do CPS schemes like NICEIC and NAPIT have a duty of care to get their members over the line?

It is an interesting question Sergio, but one I feel there is no definitive answer to, in fact the "Correct" answer could be at either end of the spectrum.

My own thought is when I read all the comments for electricians and indeed technicians about cost and time to attend numerous and regular training courses or indeed become a member of one of these schemes and its a money making scheme etc etc and lots of people out there getting work without any of those certs or quals or memberships.

Im afraid its all about the "Money".

My main thought is every individual no matter where you are in the electrical industry is it is your "Career" therefore your choice to do these things or not, just like we all have a choice to take out holiday, home or any other insurance, yes you save money while everything is ok, have an accident on holiday and in hospital with no insurance cover then...........................!

If I wish to make money in my career surely you must make some "Investment" that allows you to do that? after all it is your career nobody elses.

We all I hope know what Reg 16 EAWR says plus many other statute regulation says similar about being competent, DSEAR 2002 says similar about engaging "Suitably trained and competent person", so how would we prove that?

I seved a four year craft SJIB apprenticeship, gained my indentured papers and in 1981 first day at college we were first intake trained on the 15th Edition. Are some people saying thats all I needed to do? I served my trade apprenticeship, passed my C&G 236 Pts 1 &2 and therfore competent when I got my time out in 1985. NO AMT or FICA etc back then.

If I just kept getting work and doing it well in 2025 would I be competent? without any training courses or certificates since 1984?

Its my career, its my trade, its how I make money for myself and my family, and if that means I need to constantly go on training courses etc then so be it, costs are then part of my overhead and ultimately my customers pay for that. 

But what does the client want? infact what does the client according to regulation and also perhaps their insurances say they need "Employ Competent persons". A race to the bottom, the lowest cost etc we have all seen that, somebody can do the job for far less, and yes not a level playing field. ECA, SELECT, NICEIC, NAPIT etc etc all cost money to join, all ask for certain things and everyone has a choice, join or dont. If you do join, availibility of technical helplines, webinars, sharing of info, and sometimes, inhouse/reduced training costs. But again its a choice.

Clients can of course help, and they did in the past with nearly all local authority and Gov departments insisting on NICEIC member forms must do the work and certificates and reports must be from a NICEIC firm, again if you want to play  the game you need to buy the ticket.

Issue of course is, its not a level playing field when tendering work, those that are scheme members, undertake training, overheads will be more than those that are not members and dont do training, then again whats the quality and compliance of the work?

For me needs to be driven far better by the clients, also some liability insurers are demanding proof of scheme membership and certs afterall they pay out should something go wrong. An incident where "Competency" is questioned and you are in a criminal court would my old 236Pt1 &2 and apprentice indentures from 1985 cut the mustard?

Clients have a choice who they employ to do the work, electrical contracting fiorms have a choice who they employ as electricians, designers and verifiers and if they wish to join a scheme or not. Sole traders and the self employed again they have a choice do training courses and join schemes or not, indeed by insurance or not. Its a choice.

I have done numerous courses over the years, in fact my original 2391 when it first came out before they watered it down because so many people failed, for me was the best electrical course and exam/test I ever attended and passed. Also repeated lots of courses as they were upgraded, but that was my own choice, and I would like to think financially I gained more than I spent.

Cheers GTB

GTB said:

every individual no matter where you are in the electrical industry is it is your "Career" therefore your choice to do these things or not, just like we all have a choice to take out holiday, home or any other insurance, yes you save money while everything is ok,

Doesn't this conflate "career" [aspirational] with "job" [functional] in terms of where folks are on that trope of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Career is at the top, while job is much lower down in terms of having met basic needs? 

Here we are finding that "career" IS being defined by others in terms of hoops to jump through, which we need to acknowledge needs a 'negotiation' between all parties as to direction of travel and steering our way through the fog of confusions.

We are now in a neoliberal, devil take the hind most, austerity for the many, style economy that wasn't present when I was at university back in 73-79, and have benefitted greatly from. 

Not sure if we are agreeing or not. Wicked problems, and no easy solutions!

GTB said:

every individual no matter where you are in the electrical industry is it is your "Career" therefore your choice to do these things or not, just like we all have a choice to take out holiday, home or any other insurance, yes you save money while everything is ok,

Doesn't this conflate "career" [aspirational] with "job" [functional] in terms of where folks are on that trope of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Career is at the top, while job is much lower down in terms of having met basic needs? 

Here we are finding that "career" IS being defined by others in terms of hoops to jump through, which we need to acknowledge needs a 'negotiation' between all parties as to direction of travel and steering our way through the fog of confusions.

We are now in a neoliberal, devil take the hind most, austerity for the many, style economy that wasn't present when I was at university back in 73-79, and have benefitted greatly from. 

Not sure if we are agreeing or not. Wicked problems, and no easy solutions!