Any recommendations for some simple guidance on solar PV please?
I want to get a better idea of what may (or may not) be feasible at home before I obtain quotes. So not too simple, but I think that the Code of Practice might be too detailed and technical.
A simple question, but Uncle Google does not help.
I gather that there is normally an a.c. isolator means of isolation adjacent to the inverter. What sort of cable is normally used to connect that to a CU please? T&E?
I ask simply because I want to get my installation "solar-ready" as far as possible.
what other practical options are open to the domestic electrician?
There are locks and there are locks.
Suitably skillful thieves can overcome almost all of them.
A good bash with a fist would overcome a dolly lock. A hammer might be required for one of those yellow rotary things. You would need a good hacksaw or a disc cutter for an Eaton Glasgow.
The point is that all of them prevent inadvertent closure of the switch: there has to be a deliberate act to achieve it. The only difference is the amount of effort. But doesn't the same apply to the lock on your shed?
my inverter (and battery) will be in the same store room as the top floor's DB
Worth looking at PAS63100 for battery placement
According to the PAS 63100:2024 standard for home battery storage in the UK, batteries should ideally be installed outdoors, such as in a garage, outbuilding, or in a dedicated external cabinet. This is now depedant of battery chemistry type/makeup
It is probably advisable to have an EICR/Periodic inspection and test to check on the current condition of the install first and ask to check if you have
RCBO or Bidirection MCB for the dedicated circuit you plan to use for the Solar PV/Battery?inverter setup
Is there an SPD type 2 present and in good working order. (Not all flag colours are the same meaning)
On a side note if you are going to have Solar PV/Battery/Inverter installed please check your smoke/heat alarms and positions. 10 years is normal replacement date for domestic dwelling but the alarm/sensor should normally advise of replacement date on a sticker on the unit. Additional alarms maybe required due to the proposed extra kit (Solar PV/Battery/Inverte) and they should be inter-linked
It is probably advisable to have an EICR/Periodic inspection and test to check on the current condition of the install first and ask to check if you have
RCBO or Bidirection MCB for the dedicated circuit you plan to use for the Solar PV/Battery?inverter setup
Is there an SPD type 2 present and in good working order. (Not all flag colours are the same meaning)
Sergio, thank you. The installation is < 10 years old and in good order.
There will be an MCB for the inverter circuit in a 4-way DB nearby. That has a 16 mm² distribution circuit from an MCB in the main house board. All the final circuits are on RCBOs. SPD is fitted.
There will be an interconnected smoke alarm in the store room.
So, plug and play for the solar installer. :-)
According to the PAS 63100:2024 standard for home battery storage in the UK, batteries should ideally be installed outdoors, such as in a garage, outbuilding, or in a dedicated external cabinet.
Indeed, but with the caveat, "Where practicable" (6.5.1). I am not sure that a wall two storeys up is practicable.
This is now depedant of battery chemistry type/makeup
There it gets a bit confusing.
6.5.1 continues, "b) with ventilation according to 6.5.4".
6.5.4 NOTE 1 Guidance on and further requirements for ventilation are provided in BS EN IEC 62485 series.
BS EN IEC 62485-1:2018 refers to some types of batteries producing gas and risk minimisation by, amongst other things, ventilation (section 9).
BS EN IEC 62485-2:2018 refers to hydrogen being emitted during charging due to electrolysis (7.1) and gives a formula for ventilation (7.2). However, the values given are for lead acid and NiCd batteries.
BS EN IEC 62485-5:2021 deals with Safe operation of stationary lithium ion batteries. There is no mention of gaseous emissions save under fault conditions.
So, is there a risk of hydrogen emission from a healthy lithium battery please?
My understanding was no H2 emissions from lithium ion during normal charging (at least for LiFePO4 types) - seems to be the general consensus too - e.g. https://safetyinspectors.co.uk/2024/01/19/how-does-the-risk-of-hydrogen-gas-h2-emission-compare-between-lithium-ion-and-lead-acid-batteries-during-charging/
- Andy.
hydrogen emission from a healthy lithium battery?
No, none at all, they are sealed
But an abused lithium battery can liberate a lot worse where lead acid and NiCd used to just electrolyse water to the point of drying out and ceasing to work,
Lithium if over - charged can be far more spectacular than that... . The battery enters a state where it produces its own heat, oxygen, and fuel, and resulting in fire... see any no, of youtube videos....
Mike
The battery doesn't even have to be abused to fail, there's been incidents in continental Europe where home batteries have developed a in-service fault and failed, starting fires or in some cases explosively, there's been a few incidents reported of lithium ion home batteries causing significant structural damage.
It's for this reason I would be very wary about ever locating the battery inside the building. Installed on an outside wall, any energy release is outside the property and if the battery does start off-gassing, releasing flammable gasses then there's no confinement to allow an explosive atmosphere to form, the gasses naturally disperse.
And thinking longer term, I wonder how all of these batteries installed in people's homes are going to be safely managed as they steadily degrade and reach end of life. These are not routinely maintained, tested or inspected. Will they all gently degrade and simply fail in a benign way, or be safely shut down by protection or internal safety measure. Or as the cells, or rather strings of cells, start to degrade will we start to see more batteries failing in a hazardous way.
The only batteries that I know of that will out gas during charging are lead acid. Some people will still be using them, mainly for off grid applications.
If your lithium batteries are giving out gas, it's time to call the fire brigade.
And thinking longer term, I wonder how all of these batteries installed in people's homes are going to be safely managed as they steadily degrade and reach end of life.
Thank you folks for confirming what I thought.
That's an interesting point. Will batteries simply lose the ability to store power, in which case they will need to be replaced at some point?
My fire alarms have a "sell-by" date on them, so they have to be replaced after 10 years. A typical warranty is 10 years, so perhaps routine replacement should be considered at that stage?
The LG Chem Lithium Ion BESS mentioned in the article use Ternary Lithium chemistry cells containing Magnesium and Cobalt. All of the new batteries currently available in the Lithium Ion BESS market are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) chemistry cells which contain no Magnesium or Cobalt. Chalk and cheese.
The LG Chem Lithium Ion BESS mentioned in the article use Ternary Lithium chemistry cells containing Magnesium and Cobalt. All of the new batteries currently available in the Lithium Ion BESS market are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) chemistry cells which contain no Magnesium or Cobalt. Chalk and cheese.
Thank you, Steve - very reassuring.
Maybe it's time to check my LG Chem batteries against the latest recall list. It seems that LG batteries are known for their flammability 
It feels that the risks from LiFePO4 batteries pale into against the current practice of connecting homes to an almost unlimited supply of immediately highly flammable and potentially explosive gas (orLPG cylinders), routing it through building voids in thin metal pipes with weak on-site made joint and without any means of automatic shut-off. www.independent.co.uk/.../gas-explosions-uk-investigation-safety-b1794742.html
- Andy.
Yes the evidence does point to LFP batteries being safer than NMC, but they are still electro-chemical cells, there's still the potential for internal faults to result in off-gassing and release of flammable or hazardous gasses, so in terms of managing any risk, still better to place those batteries outside of the building in a non-confined, well ventilated location where possible,
There have been some incidents reported involving home LFP installations:
There have been some incidents reported involving home LFP installations:
That was quite a big one for domestic, even if 3-phase.
It feels that the risks from LiFePO4 batteries pale into against the current practice of connecting homes to an almost unlimited supply of immediately highly flammable and potentially explosive gas
All you need is a somewhat demented older person, who turns on the gas stove, but forgets to light it.
Luckily, modern gas stoves have flame out detectors. On mine, if you turn the knob and leave it, nothing happens. To light it, I have to press the knob down which overrides the thermocouple and operates the ignitor.
I remember this report at the time. Seeing as it's from 2023, it would be nice to see the final report. If this was indeed caused by LiFePo4 chemistry cells, then any issue of gas build up is easily mitigated by requiring the batteries be installed inside a cabinet attached to an external wall with a vent/chimney to the outside.
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