Plug-in Solar supposedly going to be 'easier'?

Hi all, new to the forum.

I've been reading (various media outlets are running with the story) that the government is planning to make it easier (no mention of safety) for consumers to connect solar PV panel inverter directly to the mains using a 3 pin plug and socket arrangement.

Considering all of the current guidance regarding the connection of a solar PV inverter to the mains (dedicated circuit, own RCD, no 3 pin plug), how is this all of a sudden going to be 'safe'?

The argument that 'Balcony Solar' is all the rage on the continent surely doesn't negate the potential risks all of a sudden. Surely the IET is in discussions with government and arguing that the dangers cannot simply be swept under the carpet?

  • I think the government would ask the BSI to come up with a standard for these plug in devices. The usual practice is for the BSI to ask for input from industry interests and professional bodies to draft a standard for public consultation. The BSI recovering their cost from sales of the standard.

    I am not aware of a current IEC, HD or BS(EN) for plug in microinverters?

    As for AJ comment about not seeing bodies piled up in the streets, what is the required number of deaths or serious injuries before a standard needs to be produced?

    I have been involved with clients in respect of PV installations who have been the source of fires. I quick search of the internet will reveal how common they are.

    I have produced an evaluation form listing all the relevant standards for PV inverter selection. It is freely available to anyone who would like a copy by emailing me on info(the word for at)astutetechnicalservices.co.uk. I have sent more than a hundred copies out already on LinkedIn. 

    JP

  • It seems that we are going to repeat the EVSE issue again.  The industry is moving much faster than the regulations thus with no regulations/product specifications in place in the UK we are at the mercy of the sales and marketing team of the manufacturer.  Uk government and BSI and IET need to take a somewhat proactive approach to the product spec and start getting something down on paper (other type of medium are available).  I agree that version 1 may not be a a mature specification but it is better than nothing.  

    As a sidenote with DIY solar/DIY inverter/DIY battery storage there needs to be a working group for the UK discussing and designing UK power stability be it through inertia or other mechanisms to proactively stabilising the UK power grid.  

  • An interesting debate so far. It cannot be beyond the wit of man to design a plug and socket arrangement which prevents contact from live conductors on both sides, either purely mechanically, or by having an interlock which opens only when the inverter has powered down.

    Yes it's already been done, in Germany they have 'Wieland' socket and plugs which do exactly what you describe, covering the connections to prevent contact with exposed conductors and the wall plates have clips to prevent unintended disconnection.

    www.wieland-electric.com/.../

  • Considering all of the current guidance regarding the connection of a solar PV inverter to the mains (dedicated circuit, own RCD, no 3 pin plug), how is this all of a sudden going to be 'safe'?

    The argument that 'Balcony Solar' is all the rage on the continent surely doesn't negate the potential risks all of a sudden. Surely the IET is in discussions with government and arguing that the dangers cannot simply be swept under the carpet?

    Yes these systems are common in Europe, Germany being one of the major markets and lets be realistic, German engineering and standards are generally pretty good, they're as good as here in the UK, so these safety issues are likely to have been considered and measures taken to manage them.

    The starting point for the UK, having started some years behind, should be to review the existing German standards for these products and their use, to understand what the risks are, how they are managed and what the operational and safety experience is with the systems to date. That then informs the view on how to safely bring them into use, the extent to which adopting existing German and European requirements into UK standards and regs is sufficient, or whether there are new or additional risks, unique to UK systems/equipment/practices which need considering.

  • German engineering and standards are generally pretty good

    Who could possibly disagree?

    I don't know Germany at all, but I suspect that they have adopted 'green' politics more readily than we have.

  • German engineering and standards are generally pretty good

    I somewhat agree,  BUT

    In recent years the Germans introduce AFDD into their Electrical Regulations DIN VDE 0100-420:2016-02+Amendment A1.   This standard made the use of AFDDs mandatory in certain types of new or upgraded electrical installations from December 18, 2017

    After a lot of debate they then downgraded the requirement from Mandatory to strong recommendation

    While the German downgrade was happening the UK made AFDD mandatory in certain instances

    Now after a decade of AFDD in Germany the industry is now starting to see AFDD version 2 products.  Why is a version 2 needed?  Well because the product and the standards were not mature enough.  

    The above decisions are normally made by Committee and there is a majority rule but sometime the various Committees as swayed by industry somewhat.

    I am sure there are people from the IEC and JPEL with far more indepth knowledge of how this system works than myself

  • I suspect that the biggest 'issue' is the differing operating environments, i.e. how we got to spur vs ring circuits (etc) and the impacts of those difference on the electrical systems and their dangers.

    There's also the different national stereotypes and tendencies that push the safety limits this way and that (e.g. see pedestrian crossing lights)

  • From my brief reading up on these balcony PV systems, I understand the inverters for these types of systems have relatively low power limits of 600W - 800W, so depending on PF, under 4A of current injected into the circuit they are connected to, which presumably keeps the risk of overloading circuit cabling relatively low, be it sockets on radials, rings or even spurs.